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(Charles...reply posted as well In Recommendations & Experiences..please delete one and/or edit as you feel-Thanks)

shootthesheet..... His Comment: "LEOs must practice more at range"

++1
Our CHL instructor, a current LEO/Instructor with a v large PD and former SWAT team leader 12yrs, showed us some staggering 'shoot' numbers on regular large city patrolmen and Swat or Special Services Teams around the country.

While don't have the numbers handy here at work...the patrolman's average hit on target ,in real gunfight situations is 29% (that's 1 out of 3 shots will hit its target>v scary), while Swat/Special Services is 98-99%.

The difference....the patrolman must pay for his own ammo, and hit the range on his own time; while SWAT receives everything ammo/time = free, and departments insists that SWAT range and course time be part of their ongoing training, activity....

I hit the range once a week and go through a minimum of 100-200 rounds per week; because it's the practice, and training that may save my life or that of my wife (she is CHL too). I'm not a 'gun-ho' CHLer and I hope I never have to use my weapon ...but I know that if my life depends on it...I've done my time in repeated practice, training and muscle memory and vision will help me!

I think it's really deplorable of those PD's policy/ treatment for the regular LEO on the street- our first line of protection - they must pay out of his own pocket and their own time! We CHLers have agreed to ' take the higher road ' in conduct and responsibility and now part of that responsbility is to insist PDs provide the facilities, time and ammo for our LEOs! Do your part and make a call inquiry today to your local Chief!

If we have to fire; let's make sure we hit the BGs...not innocent victims!

John// Dallas 57 yrs
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Skipper5 wrote: While don't have the numbers handy here at work...the patrolman's average hit on target ,in real gunfight situations is 29% (that's 1 out of 3 shots will hit its target>v scary), while Swat/Special Services is 98-99%.

The difference....the patrolman must pay for his own ammo, and hit the range on his own time; while SWAT receives everything ammo/time = free, and departments insists that SWAT range and course time be part of their ongoing training, activity....

I disagree. The difference is that when a patrolman has to shoot, it's almost always a a problem arises-real-quick situation, while SWAT goes into their shoots at the high ready, knowing they may be about to shoot.

For patrolmen, it's react/defend/draw/shoot with no chance to plan. For SWAT, it's shoot/no shoot, but they've already approached with the target covered.

Very few SWAT do it full time. Most are patrolmen until SWAT is called. The interesting thing to compare would be their shooting stats while on patrol, versus while assembled as SWAT.

Kevin

KBCraig wrote:

Skipper5 wrote: While don't have the numbers handy here at work...the patrolman's average hit on target ,in real gunfight situations is 29% (that's 1 out of 3 shots will hit its target>v scary), while Swat/Special Services is 98-99%.

The difference....the patrolman must pay for his own ammo, and hit the range on his own time; while SWAT receives everything ammo/time = free, and departments insists that SWAT range and course time be part of their ongoing training, activity....

I disagree. The difference is that when a patrolman has to shoot, it's almost always a a problem arises-real-quick situation, while SWAT goes into their shoots at the high ready, knowing they may be about to shoot.

For patrolmen, it's react/defend/draw/shoot with no chance to plan. For SWAT, it's shoot/no shoot, but they've already approached with the target covered.

Very few SWAT do it full time. Most are patrolmen until SWAT is called. The interesting thing to compare would be their shooting stats while on patrol, versus while assembled as SWAT.

Kevin

Both aspects play an important role. I have seen studies that show that SWAT/TAC guys have higher hit ratios even when working patrol.

Many trainers who shoot often have higher hit ratios than those who do not practice. I have spoken to officers involved in shootings who trained often, and they remember things like front site, press.

Shooting is a perishable skill.

Very few SWAT do it full time. Most are patrolmen until SWAT is called. The interesting thing to compare would be their shooting stats while on patrol, versus while assembled as SWAT.

Kevin

I believe you're correct here...our Instructor gave us...'shooting stats while on patrol. versus while assembled as SWAT'....surely that must be it!
As we know in most departments the SWAT team(s)- such as with DPD are made up of regular officers who have been brought over to SWAT training/gear/ammo/tactics, etc.

I went through what the Huntsville PD calls a "Citizens' Police Academy" a few years back. Just a chance for your average citizen to get to know the officers in the area and how they do their job. I recall that, at that time, Huntsville PD provided ammo and a range for the officers to practice. I do not recall if they had to use their own time, but two out of three isn't bad.

The last officer-involved shooting I remember here happened to a friend and Deacon in my church. He was attacked by a knife-wielding lunatic and was stabbed in the leg, as I recall. He fired one shot, which ended the confrantation. I hope that my friend is representative of the people on the Huntsville PD force. Of all that I have met, he is.

Thank you to all law enforcement officers everywhere!

barres wrote: I recall that, at that time, Huntsville PD provided ammo and a range for the officers to practice. I do not recall if they had to use their own time, but two out of three isn't bad.

+ 1 barres
Only disagree on the time factor .... the LEOs have families too and if they are expected to be ready to bear arms up for the 'good guys' on a split-seconds notice....the Department should be giving the men and woman the time to practice x numbers of hours a month...on the citizen's time; not their family time! Good show for your friend on the Huntville PD!!