TexasCHLforum.com

I was just thinking, if there's an emergency disaster like Katrina in Texas, I'd like to continue seeing patients at the hospital. I mean, they'd probably need me more than ever. However, i don't want to be targeted by criminals and looters on the way to work. I know handguns are illegal in Texas hospitals. I remember that the 30.06 sign applies only to handguns but doesn't apply to rifles. Is that true? Or am I hallucinating?

If there were an emergency disaster, I'd like to continue working, but have a hunting rifle underneath my lab coat when I arrive at work. Then, when I get there, I could put a trigger lock on the gun and hand it over to the police liason or security guard.

So, any lawyers out there can let me know please? Thanks,


P.S. Yeah, I know, it's against hospital policy to be armed, but if they're stupid enough to fire someone who's so dedicated that he would continue to work despite rioting and looting, then so be it.

If it's a "school or educational institution" type of hospital then firearms are prohibited under 46.02 with no sign required.

IANAL

drjoker wrote:I was just thinking, if there's an emergency disaster like Katrina in Texas, I'd like to continue seeing patients at the hospital. I mean, they'd probably need me more than ever. However, i don't want to be targeted by criminals and looters on the way to work. I know handguns are illegal in Texas hospitals. I remember that the 30.06 sign applies only to handguns but doesn't apply to rifles. Is that true? Or am I hallucinating?

If there were an emergency disaster, I'd like to continue working, but have a hunting rifle underneath my lab coat when I arrive at work. Then, when I get there, I could put a trigger lock on the gun and hand it over to the police liason or security guard.

So, any lawyers out there can let me know please? Thanks,


P.S. Yeah, I know, it's against hospital policy to be armed, but if they're stupid enough to fire someone who's so dedicated that he would continue to work despite rioting and looting, then so be it.

Handguns are not illegal in Texas hospitals unless hospital is privately owned and properly 30.06 posted.

I guess you could invest in a federally registered "short barreled rifle", short (sawed off) shotgun, or machine gun pistol, and arguably they would be legal to carry past a 30.06 sign at a private hospital (since they are not handguns), and more concealable than a rifle. And yes a concealed rifle is legal for carry even without a CHL.

I'd just carry a concealed handgun. In the very unlikely case I had to use it, I'd have to depend on numerous justifications under Texas law for using or displaying "deadly force".

"First, do no harm" - Hippocrates
ἐπὶ δηλήσει δὲ καὶ ἀδικίῃ εἴρξειν
primum nil nocere

Handguns are not illegal in Texas hospitals unless hospital is privately owned and properly 30.06 posted.

Thank you for correcting that mistatement. My wife had a 'procedure' at TMF in Tyler a month or so ago and I know for a fact that there were two handguns in the building - mine and a Security guy's. I can only assume there were others.

30.06 is posted. 30.06 is (if I remember correctly), "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06,
PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN)
A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS
PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

I states "handgun", so is it legal to carry a hunting rifle under my lab coat? I don't want to break the law, but I also want to continue doing my job and not change any of my daily routine because of thugs and terrorists. If we change our daily routine, then the thugs and terrorists win. If thugs and terrorists do nothing to dent our lives then they lose and we win.

Also, I thought all hospitals were off limits, even without a 30.06 posted.

GC411.05:
shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements
of Subsection (c)... The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.

P.S. I will ask my prepaid legal lawyer and report back Monday morning....

drjoker wrote:30.06 is posted. 30.06 is (if I remember correctly), "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06,
PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN)
A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS
PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

I states "handgun", so is it legal to carry a hunting rifle under my lab coat? I don't want to break the law, but I also want to continue doing my job and not change any of my daily routine because of thugs and terrorists. If we change our daily routine, then the thugs and terrorists win. If thugs and terrorists do nothing to dent our lives then they lose and we win.

Also, I thought all hospitals were off limits, even without a 30.06 posted. Same goes for churches, schools, air ports and post offices.

Read the exceptions farther down in the statute or your handbook.

drjoker wrote:30.06 is posted. 30.06 is (if I remember correctly), "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06,
PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN)
A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS
PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

I states "handgun", so is it legal to carry a hunting rifle under my lab coat? I don't want to break the law, but I also want to continue doing my job and not change any of my daily routine because of thugs and terrorists. If we change our daily routine, then the thugs and terrorists win. If thugs and terrorists do nothing to dent our lives then they lose and we win.

Also, I thought all hospitals were off limits, even without a 30.06 posted. Same goes for churches, schools, air ports and post offices.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other to the legality of your question, but on the face of it, I think you might be walking a very fine line here because you are proposing concealing the weapon on your person underneath a lab coat. It would seem like most security folks would be thinking about the "conceal" part, and not about the "handgun" part. On the other hand, if you carry an AR15 in a rectangular canvas "briefcase" that hides the rifle's shape without concealing it under your clothing, you might be able to skirt that edge a little bit.

Just a thought...

The Annoyed Man wrote:On the other hand, if you carry an AR15 in a rectangular canvas "briefcase" that hides the rifle's shape without concealing it under your clothing, you might be able to skirt that edge a little bit.

Just a thought...

Make sure you can get it into action quickly, especially if you're not carrying a handgun to buy time.

drjoker wrote:30.06 is posted. 30.06 is (if I remember correctly), "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06,
PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN)
A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS
PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

OK, I didn't see that in the original post...

I states "handgun", so is it legal to carry a hunting rifle under my lab coat? I don't want to break the law, but I also want to continue doing my job and not change any of my daily routine because of thugs and terrorists. If we change our daily routine, then the thugs and terrorists win. If thugs and terrorists do nothing to dent our lives then they lose and we win.

Yes. It is legal to carry a gun (other than a handgun). If you have a lot of money you could get a NFA registered Mini-Uzi machine pistol. They're pretty heavy, but easily concealable in a doctor bag (yeah...that's right I got the Uzi right next to the stethoscope...) or brief case.

All doctors golf (or at least that's the stereotype). So, buy yourself a locking golf bag. You were probably on the golf course when the emergency started, right? You had to rush in, and didn't want to leave your expensive Bing set out there for anyone to steal, right?

From there, I leave it up to you as an exercise in imagination.

ScottDLS wrote:Handguns are not illegal in Texas hospitals unless hospital is privately owned and properly 30.06 posted.

I wanted to correct this misstatement first, then answer the question as I see it. Handguns and hospitals is a very gray area, though the above situation is one of the two clear answers. Private property and properly posted means no guns, regardless of type of business, including hospitals. By the same token, any hospital that is not a school and does not have proper 30.06 signs posted is clearly not banned.

But other situations are not nearly as clear. What about private hospitals that are also schools? Say Baylor School of Medicine as one example? In this case, a strong argument can be made that it is banned as a school premises without the need for the 30.06 sign? Of course, the same argument goes for government owned hospitals that are also schools - they may be banned without the need of a 30.06 sign. They other gray area is the publicly run hospitals that are not schools? Can they be banned by posting 30.06? There is the argument that they are government property, so the 30.06 sign cannot be valid. But there is also the argument that if the sign is posted, you get charged with violating 46.035, not 30.06. There is some disagreement on the forum as to this, but I do believe you would be charged.

So, other than the first two scenarios I mentioned, hospitals can be a very gray area. Be careful.

Now, as to the original question. The sections on carrying at hospitals and other properties that are posted only apply to people with handguns who are carrying under the authority of their concealed handgun license. Anyone can carry a rifle or shotgun there, either openly or concealed (though I would think open carry of a long gun would cause a little commotion). Other people can legally carry there also, with concealed or open handguns. For example, the laws do not stop cops from carrying there, nor do they interfere with security guards. And, believe it or not, the old traveling exception is also there (though convincing the jury you were traveling might be hard).

So, get a legal short barreled rifle or shotgun with a folding or collapsible stock, and you could legally carry it into the hospital concealed. And this would be true at all times, though it might be easier to get away with in case of disaster.

Also, I thought all hospitals were off limits, even without a 30.06 posted. Same goes for churches, schools, air ports and post offices.

Incorrect, unless the Church is also a school (then gray areas apply depending upon how the facilities are situated/used).

drjoker wrote:shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements
of Subsection (c)... The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.

Under what statute does that sign have any authority?

PC46.035(i) specifies that the notice must be given under PC30.06 to be effective. 46.035(b)(1) specifically only applies to actual 51% locations, regardless of signage. (Then 46.035(k) provides a defense for lack of signage.)

srothstein wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:Handguns are not illegal in Texas hospitals unless hospital is privately owned and properly 30.06 posted.

I wanted to correct this misstatement first, then answer the question as I see it. Handguns and hospitals is a very gray area, though the above situation is one of the two clear answers. Private property and properly posted means no guns, regardless of type of business, including hospitals. By the same token, any hospital that is not a school and does not have proper 30.06 signs posted is clearly not banned.

I'll grant you the "gray" on government owned hospitals, given the somewhat unclear interplay between 30.06(e) and 46.035(i). Though my argument would be that 30.06(e) prevents you from receiving the "notice" required to make 46.035(b)(4) effective, even considering the latter part of 30.06(e). Thank goodness there aren't (AFAIK) any government owned amusement parks or churches, or we'd have a whole new shade of gray.

However, I wouldn't really go so far as to call my post a "misstatement". Ok, ok, ...only now I have to say said hospital is not a school, or a professional sporting event is not occurring there, and its not a VA owned or military (federal) hospital, and the city council isn't meeting there (while properly 30.06 posted).

What I'm really waiting for is a hospital that receives more than 51% of its revenue from licensed sale of alcoholic beverages for on premises consumption, as determined by TABC.

ScottDLS wrote:What I'm really waiting for is a hospital that receives more than 51% of its revenue from licensed sale of alcoholic beverages for on premises consumption, as determined by TABC.

I don't want to say it has happened, but I seem to recall a post about a 51% sign in Sherman, if that helps.