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I mentioned to someone today that Academy in McKinney has 20 ct boxes for 6.00 each and they seemed to be of the opinion that these are poor quality rounds that fire dirty and would require more regular cleaning as opposed to a more "premium" round.
Can anyone advise before I go stock up?

It's the same as Wolf ammo. I've shot 3k rounds of Wolf thru my RRA. Now some people might gawk at the thought but I've never had any issues. So what if it takes a little more cleaning. It's worth the money to me. Just make sure if your gonna shoot brass afterword you clean the upper with a brush to keep the case from sticking

Good info!
But a quick question, why would brass get stuck after firing steel?

MedicMan218 wrote:Good info!
But a quick question, why would brass get stuck after firing steel?

Because the steel is coated with a varnish so that it will go into the chamber easily. But some of the varnish melts off during detonation and coats the inside of the chamber, making it harder for unvarnished brass cases to feed into the chamber. The only way to avoid this is to thoroughly scrub the chamber clean.

I have personally seen Wolf/Monarch steel cased .223 cases get stuck in the chamber of an AR, and shoving a dowell down the barrel and pounding on it with a mallet would not dislodge it. I NEVER use steel cased ammo in my rifles for this reason.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

MedicMan218 wrote:Good info!
But a quick question, why would brass get stuck after firing steel?

Because the steel is coated with a varnish so that it will go into the chamber easily. But some of the varnish melts off during detonation and coats the inside of the chamber, making it harder for unvarnished brass cases to feed into the chamber. The only way to avoid this is to thoroughly scrub the chamber clean.

I have personally seen Wolf/Monarch steel cased .223 cases get stuck in the chamber of an AR, and shoving a dowell down the barrel and pounding on it with a mallet would not dislodge it. I NEVER use steel cased ammo in my rifles for this reason.

The purpose of the varnish is rust prevention not lubrication the gray polimer coated Wolf ammo they sell now is supposed to prevent sticking that was caused by the varnish getting hot and sticky and then allowed to remain in the hot chamber till it cooled. I always clear my chamber after shooting a long string of varnished ammo if pausing for more than a few seconds. A thorough scrubbing of the chamber of an AR with a military style chamber brush and a cleaner like Ed's Red will disolve the varnish deposits left behind by varnish coated ammo.

Silver Bear ammo is zinc coated steel there isn't anything on the cases to come off and it shoots pretty well in my rifle.

MoJo wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

MedicMan218 wrote:Good info!
But a quick question, why would brass get stuck after firing steel?

Because the steel is coated with a varnish so that it will go into the chamber easily. But some of the varnish melts off during detonation and coats the inside of the chamber, making it harder for unvarnished brass cases to feed into the chamber. The only way to avoid this is to thoroughly scrub the chamber clean.

I have personally seen Wolf/Monarch steel cased .223 cases get stuck in the chamber of an AR, and shoving a dowell down the barrel and pounding on it with a mallet would not dislodge it. I NEVER use steel cased ammo in my rifles for this reason.

The purpose of the varnish is rust prevention not lubrication the gray polimer coated Wolf ammo they sell now is supposed to prevent sticking that was caused by the varnish getting hot and sticky and then allowed to remain in the hot chamber till it cooled.

I stand corrected. In any case, I've seen a couple of horror stories with my own eyes, and listened to enough others that I just can't bring myself to use that stuff. Maybe I'm being a little bit obsessive about it, but that's what it takes to make me comfortable.

I think the biggest problem with steel cased ammo in general is the fact that the casings do not expand (fire form) to the chamber like brass. This allows hot gasses and nasty powder residue to blow back into the chamber between the chamber wall and shell casing. Thus, a big source of unnecessary wear and tear on a good firearm.

I stick to my motto:

commie ammo for commie guns!


surv

Well, we ran about 300 or so rounds of the monarch through my Sig 556 with only one FTF.
The striker struck but no go boom! I quickly chunked it, the further away from me the better.
Now headed home for a through cleaning. I finally got it sighted in and will post pics of the target later.

Sig rifles are a different story b/c they are not direct impingement style gas systems. They are a modified piston set up. So in theory they do not poop where they eat. I have run LOTS of steel cased Monarch and Wolf through several of my AR style rifles. I have had a case get stuck as well and a wooden dowel rod and a good smack with a mallet got it out. Yes it was a pain, yes it stopped my fun for the day, yes I was nervous the first time it happened. Did it stop me from buying steel cased ammo...NO. I would not trust my life on it, I thoroughly clean my guns after every use anyway. Do I have to clean them a little better when I shoot steel...Yes. Is the cost savings to too much to ignore if you are prepared to tackle a few hiccups...No.

After thousands of steel and brass cased ammo I still buy steel cased ammo for plinking and general fun. I have battle packs and bug out mags loaded with brass.

I second the recommendation for Silver Bear ammo. I have not had ANY problems with it is several different calibers fired out of several different AR style rifles.

Range report is up with pics

mr surveyor wrote:commie ammo for commie guns!

It sounds like Eastern European ammo would be a good match for guns made by companies in NY, IL, CA, etc.

Not as big of a difference now but when the ammo shortage hit and the academy steel cased monarch was about all that was available I did some real quick math for the employee lambasting a customer at the counter at my local Academy. It may not be the best choice but if you are aware of the pros/cons then make your own decision in my book. For me it's easy, I can shoot a lot of plinking ammo for a fraction of the price even taking into account wear on parts. And at the time is was nearly half the price or better (today not as much but still cheaper).

Several thousand rounds of russian through one of my ARs to date. A lot of it was monarch and the vast majority was russian steel cased. Not uncommon for the gun to be shot rapid fire and have rounds left in battery during cool down. Cleaning is probably every 300-600 rounds depending on the day of shooting. Not once have I had a stuck case although I have seen it happen to others and even then it is not a super common occurrence. Have not had to replace extractors or any other parts and she still shoots just as good as new. This on a cheap model 1 upper. For what I have saved I could replace the upper and BCG with a top of the line model of my choice. Or replace it with 2 basic uppers from model1. The math just speaks to me :-)

Nobody argues that steel may be harder on the rifle but for the savings you can easily replace the parts it wears out with a moderate amount of plinking. Extractors and pretty much any wearable part (including a barrels as some might have you believe is inevitable) are easily covered in cost when there is a discrepancy of 20-30 cents per round at the rate of ammo I might shoot. Now if you are just shooting a hundred or less rounds every so often then stick with the more expensive stuff. But if shooting a lot for fun it's worth a look.

I fired 500 rounds of this ammunition in a training class yesterday with no hiccups. Yes it's very dirty and the powder smells weird, but I cannot afford 500-600 rounds of XM193 or similar for training, it's just too expensive. Both of my instructors who are LE and very experienced with the AR platform will shoot it in their guns too. The monarch steel stuff is made by Barnaul generally, most of the monarch brass is excellent, because it is made by Prvi Partizan. I've also shot a lot of the Monarch steel 9x19 and Wolf steel 9x19 and in my 5906 it's actually cleaner than winchester white box. Wolf does seem to shoot a little cleaner than the Barnaul though. Don't sweat it, just clean regularly (like you should anyway) and get out there, practice, take classes, shoot matches, and become better.
My thanks to the Russians for allowing me to become a better shooter on my budget. Будем здоровы!

My understanding was that it was not the lacquer or varnish that was causing the chamber problems. It was the fact that the mild steel cases do not expand into the chamber and seal it when firing quite as good as brass so you get more burnt powder residue and such on the walls of your chamber. Once that builds up, brass ammo can stick a little bit. You have to make sure you clean your chamber very well.

I believe the guys at The Box O'Truth did a test of that. They only had trouble with the South African brass 223 which was known to use a more brittle brass.

When first got an AR, I bought a spare bolt w/extractor for less than the difference between Wolf ammo and normal brass 223. This was before prices went up.

Almost all steel cased ammo now comes polymer coated and not lacquer anymore. The steel does not expand as uniformly as brass b/c it is a harder metal, the steel cased ammo will wear on wearable parts more than brass...but they are still wearable parts, so they are designed to be replaced at some point in time depending on use. The average use of a civilian rifle is minuscule compared to the wear are tear a combat rifle would see.