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Would you draw? I'm not entirely sure what I would do, but due to injuries I've sustained to both legs, running is not really an option for me.

Just bringing this up as a "what if", but this actually happened.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... 1rap1.html

After he had punched me in the face, I would have beat the crap out of that little gangsta.

Mount, posture up, deliver the goods...

I hope it's prosecuted as a Felony Hate Crime. Would I have drawn my weapon? I guess if the gangsta's buddies had jumped in you may not have any other choice than to draw if you are in fear of your life.

Munk wrote:After he had punched me in the face, I would have beat the crap out of that little gangsta.

Mount, posture up, deliver the goods...

I hope it's prosecuted as a Felony Hate Crime. Would I have drawn my weapon? I guess if the gangsta's buddies had jumped in you may not have any other choice than to draw if you are in fear of your life.

I love this part, "The teen attacker gave a fake name when initially approached by cops, but was later identified by his mother."

Honestly, I would have said nothing to the kid as responding only escalates the situation. If he punched me without provocation, then depending on the size of the group and the proximity to my person, I would feel as if they would attack someone with no provication from me, and I probably would move to draw and take it from there.

In a shooting, if you testimony says that you responded "I can listen to whatever I want" before the attack you not only admit that you heard the other person talk but knowingly responded in a provicating manner, as the lawyers of the "poor poor defenseless 14yo attacked by the 22yo".

If you don't say anything, you can say that you didn't hear them say anything, and they suddenly started hitting you in the face so you drew your weapon in fear for your life because someone started attacking you without warning, whos to say he doesn't have a knife, or one of his buds doesn't have a pipe or a club, I think any resonable person would feel that way.

IANAL

Just Google "Derrion Albert Death".

This young man was beat to death by a group of young blacks.

I don't know what I would do if I looked up and found I was surrounded by a group of gangbangers looking for a confrontation, but I wouldn't take it lightly.

As soon as 1 of them laid a hand on me, I would defend myself by whatever means I had available.

I have no idea how old someone is just by looking at them and I don't know what their intentions are.

I know at 14 years old, I was almost 6 feet tall and 200lbs and could deliver a serious beating on someone if I wanted to.

If a gang of people came up to me and made a racially motivated confrontational statement, I wouldn't stand my ground. I'd turn off the music and try to leave as soon as possible, followed by a call to the police. People who will do that will hurt you without provocation.

I would be especially aware of where the group was in proximity to me and would feel very threatened if they were blocking my exits or closing in around me. I would be concerned about drawing a gun when surrounded by a group who is likely to have weapons, especially if the altercation is currently only between me and one of them. If I draw and I'm jumped by 5 street fighters, even if they aren't armed, I don't stand a chance. I'd try to deescalate and leave as a matter of self-preservation.

Kythas wrote:Would you draw? I'm not entirely sure what I would do, but due to injuries I've sustained to both legs, running is not really an option for me.

Just bringing this up as a "what if", but this actually happened.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ye ... 1rap1.html

It depends.

Our CHL instructor told us: "if you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck." The situation, as described, is going to be heavily weighted against me, meaning that my tactics really sucked.

1. When I was told turn off the music, I would have, without a response, immediately turned off the music and attempted a purposeful exit.

2. I would have immediately gotten out my cell phone and dialed 911. My attitude is anytime that I'm in a public area and I've been threatened by a group of people, I'm in danger. Assuming that I've gained a few feet of separation, they don't know who I'm calling and may just leave me depart.

3. I don't think that I'm good enough physically keep them from taking my gun from me so displaying it may increase my chances that it would be used against me. If I am jumped by multiples of them, I want the element of surprise while I try to take out a couple of them before they figure out what happened. If I didn't say anything and attempted to withdraw and was still physically attacked by multiple people, my legal situation is much better than it would have been.

IMHO, there were two problems that put the victim at risk

a. He was in a public place, playing music that others could hear. I'm simply appalled at the number of times that can be viewed as aggravation. Even little old ladies don't like it.

b. In the face of bad odds against him, he made at least one provocative statement. Where is the logic in that? Remember, my mission is to protect my own safety and I've just done something that may have the opposite effect.

To me this is another case where no matter what action is taken or not taken, things are going to turn out badly. The 14 yr old punk can brag to his buds all day that he made me turn of my music. I simply don't care. I missed my condition orange opportunity when I let a group get that close to me in the first place. They had to have been around the guy and close enough for long enough to hear what he was playing. If he missed seeing them, that was his mistake.

However, if the incident is determined to be racially motivated, the battery charge could be elevated to a felony via a so-called hate-crime enhancement.

Let me get this straight.... The white kid is listening to some rap music (Lord knows why), and he is approached by a gang of black kids who tell him that he shouldn't be listening to rap music (I agree, but for different reasons) because he's white, and then they - the black kids - give him a whuppin' for being white and listing to rap. If he was black and listening to rap, they would not have had the same "justification" to assault him.

What's left to determine? It WAS racially motivated. There is no other reason. They didn't beat on him because he has brown hair. They STATED their reasons. They beat on him for being white skinned. What do they have to do.... drag him behind a pickup truck before somebody gives a rip? How simple does it have to be for the laws of the land to begin to apply equally to all of us, regardless of skin color.

This was a hate crime. Plain and simple.

chasfm11 wrote:Our CHL instructor told us: "if you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck." The situation, as described, is going to be heavily weighted against me, meaning that my tactics really sucked.

1. When I was told turn off the music, I would have, without a response, immediately turned off the music and attempted a purposeful exit.

2. I would have immediately gotten out my cell phone and dialed 911. My attitude is anytime that I'm in a public area and I've been threatened by a group of people, I'm in danger. Assuming that I've gained a few feet of separation, they don't know who I'm calling and may just leave me depart.

3. I don't think that I'm good enough physically keep them from taking my gun from me so displaying it may increase my chances that it would be used against me. If I am jumped by multiples of them, I want the element of surprise while I try to take out a couple of them before they figure out what happened. If I didn't say anything and attempted to withdraw and was still physically attacked by multiple people, my legal situation is much better than it would have been.

IMHO, there were two problems that put the victim at risk

a. He was in a public place, playing music that others could hear. I'm simply appalled at the number of times that can be viewed as aggravation. Even little old ladies don't like it.

b. In the face of bad odds against him, he made at least one provocative statement. Where is the logic in that? Remember, my mission is to protect my own safety and I've just done something that may have the opposite effect.

To me this is another case where no matter what action is taken or not taken, things are going to turn out badly. The 14 yr old punk can brag to his buds all day that he made me turn of my music. I simply don't care. I missed my condition orange opportunity when I let a group get that close to me in the first place. They had to have been around the guy and close enough for long enough to hear what he was playing. If he missed seeing them, that was his mistake.

Nicely stated. You had a great instructor.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

However, if the incident is determined to be racially motivated, the battery charge could be elevated to a felony via a so-called hate-crime enhancement.

Let me get this straight.... The white kid is listening to some rap music (Lord knows why), and he is approached by a gang of black kids who tell him that he shouldn't be listening to rap music (I agree, but for different reasons) because he's white, and then they - the black kids - give him a whuppin' for being white and listing to rap. If he was black and listening to rap, they would not have had the same "justification" to assault him.

What's left to determine? It WAS racially motivated. There is no other reason. They didn't beat on him because he has brown hair. They STATED their reasons. They beat on him for being white skinned. What do they have to do.... drag him behind a pickup truck before somebody gives a rip? How simple does it have to be for the laws of the land to begin to apply equally to all of us, regardless of skin color.

This was a hate crime. Plain and simple.

Under current law, that's correct. However, I'm not at all in favor of the concept of using an offender's supposed reason for the crime as an element of the offense and calling it a "hate crime" if it falls into certain categories. This may be relevant to establishing a motive, but doesn't have any impact on what happened as a result. Our laws were simpler and justice more even handed when they focused only on what you did and whether you intended to do it or not.

Consider: If the fact pattern had been the same in this case except the offender didn't state his reasoning, would that have made it a love crime?

In my mind, the only legitimate considerations in law should be the intent, the act, and the result.

The concern I would have drawing on the assailant here is that it would seem likely that at least one of the other guys in his posse might be carrying. Once you draw, you could have a person on your side or behind you using that as a reason to open fire on you. The facts don't make it clear if he was surrounded or where the others in the group were. Outnumbered like that, I'd seek a retreat of some sort. But if it got the point I was repeatedly being whacked in the face, yes I'd draw. But given the circumstances, you might just end up in a multi-person gunfight, and that I'd like to avoid at all costs.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

However, if the incident is determined to be racially motivated, the battery charge could be elevated to a felony via a so-called hate-crime enhancement.

Let me get this straight.... The white kid is listening to some rap music (Lord knows why), and he is approached by a gang of black kids who tell him that he shouldn't be listening to rap music (I agree, but for different reasons) because he's white, and then they - the black kids - give him a whuppin' for being white and listing to rap. If he was black and listening to rap, they would not have had the same "justification" to assault him.

What's left to determine? It WAS racially motivated. There is no other reason. They didn't beat on him because he has brown hair. They STATED their reasons. They beat on him for being white skinned. What do they have to do.... drag him behind a pickup truck before somebody gives a rip? How simple does it have to be for the laws of the land to begin to apply equally to all of us, regardless of skin color.

This was a hate crime. Plain and simple.

The victim was white, so it doesn't count. It's barely even a crime.

Hoi Polloi wrote:If a gang of people came up to me and made a racially motivated confrontational statement, I wouldn't stand my ground. I'd turn off the music and try to leave as soon as possible, followed by a call to the police. People who will do that will hurt you without provocation.

I would be especially aware of where the group was in proximity to me and would feel very threatened if they were blocking my exits or closing in around me. I would be concerned about drawing a gun when surrounded by a group who is likely to have weapons, especially if the altercation is currently only between me and one of them. If I draw and I'm jumped by 5 street fighters, even if they aren't armed, I don't stand a chance. I'd try to deescalate and leave as a matter of self-preservation.

I would say "Okay" turn the music off and leave if possible.

First and foremost: Why was the honky in the hood? If he was tryin' to get sumpin on, he did.

That said, TAM is absolutely correct; this was a "hate" crime (aren't all crimes of violence hate crimes). The white folk are not automatically the most racist folk and dat's a fact!

To answer, the OP's question, I have long since outgrown the need for attention and wouldn't have placed myself in that situation.

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