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Hello all

I recently acquired an M&P compact as my CCW and I have been thinking about installing either Trijicon night sights or CT laser grips. I would just like to get everyone’s opinion on what they prefer and why.

Thanks

I prefer tritium night sights because the battery does not run out unexpectedly and the aiming is exactly the same as traditional iron sights. I don't want to have to think too much under pressure.

My M&P 45 has night sights. In fact, all of my carry guns have night sights, including my little M&P 340 pocket revolver. I know that laser sights can be made to work well, and some people really like them, but I just can't get used to them. OTH, the sight picture with night sights seems completely natural to me.

My wife's carry revolver - a S&W 642 CT - has the CT laser grips on it. Whenever I try to shoot the thing with the laser turned on, I wind up just watching the red dot dance around, and I actually have a harder time holding the pistol steady. It's a distraction. My wife doesn't use it either, so it rarely ever gets switched on.

Your mileage may vary, and you might wind up actually really liking the laser sights. One thing is for sure, of the two ways to go, the night sights are going to be a third or less of the cost of a CT grip laser.

fecnik wrote:Hello all

I recently acquired an M&P compact as my CCW and I have been thinking about installing either Trijicon night sights or CT laser grips. I would just like to get everyone’s opinion on what they prefer and why.

Thanks

Let me assure you that I do not mean to be flippant when I give you my personal answer: "It depends."

Depends on what? Too many variables can arise for me to venture to answer this one.

My solution: I have fitted one of my favorite carry handguns with both a CT and a tritium front sight.

One of the big benefits to lasers that I find is the ability to "accurately" fire without having to have the sights at eye level. There may be times in a life or death situation that you won't be able to extend your arms to sight your weapon with the night sights. I know, to some, that lasers can interfere with muscle memory and prior training/practice and be distracting. However, if you train/practice with both a laser and standard gun sights you will be able to do either. As an example, I can land a helicopter or an airplane. Two "totally" different methods and skill sets. When you first transition from rotary wing to fixed wing, or vice versa, it's always frustrating and you want to revert to your comfort zone. But quicker than you think, you develop the muscle memory to do both. I think it's the same with lasers vs. night or standard sights. MHO.

Lasers have virtually no use in bright sunlight, one should never depend on them for accuracy in every situation, on the plus side properly adjusted lasers allow you to shoot from almost any position and hit what your aiming at, such as drawing and firing from the hip. All my handguns have night sights, my main carry gun (LCR) has a laser, although I do not use the laser during the majority of my practice. I wanted the laser in case I was ever in a situation where I had to make a 50 foot plus shot, from a 2 inch barrel under stress I wll take all the added advantages that I can get. I picked up a new Sig that I will start to carry soon as it is broken in, it has night sights and at some point may also add Crimson Trace (the only laser I will ever buy) grips to it. To each their own, the most important thing is being able to hit what you aim at in every situation that you may encounter.

FWIW, I found the laser to a be a real "mind confuser", to put of nicely.

After I got my CT grips for my Glock I decided to invest in a brief (one hour) training session from a professional instructor. We covered the laser with tape during the session, and after learning a correct grip my groups tightened up substantially. When we were done I decided to try my hand with the laser and my groups took a turn for the worse.

As mentioned in a prior post use of a laser is a different skill set than "regular" sights. I have seen folks who were very skilled with the laser, but I'll be sticking with what I know, and for me that's "regular" sights. And with night sights you don't have to worry about mechanical/electrical failure.

But if I had more time and money I'd love to become proficant with a laser too.

Lasers also have a certain deterrent/intimidation factor as well, opinions will vary, you can search the forum for some examples.

My advice: Get both. There was a time when I thought night sites were not worth the money, then I used a friends Taurus PT1911 (With aftermarket sights) in low light conditions and decided I needed them as well. I then decided to try a laser grip so I could honestly recommend against people buying them, and then I saw where they could be useful. Night sights are regular sights during the day, lasers are useless during the day (just like the tritium vials in night sights). But in low light conditions both can be extremely useful.

Lasers can also be useful when shooting from less than conventional positions, and when shooting around cover. I typically turn the laser grips master switch off (except on my LCP which has no such switch), but test the laser with each press check. You need to get training to take full advantage of both, but you also need to train so that you can work without either as well.

Also you need to remember we are not trying to get minute of angle accuracy out of a handgun during a fight, we are only concerned with getting good hits that will stop the attacker(s). Most of these areas will fall into an 8 inch circle.

My advice is to get both, but if you can only afford one right now, get the night sights.

Thanks everyone...i appreciate the responses

I think i will go ahead and get the night sights first..use the money that i saved for more training.

fecnik wrote:Thanks everyone...i appreciate the responses

I think i will go ahead and get the night sights first..use the money that i saved for more training.

before you make a final decision, watch this video. Yes he is a "paid" consultant, and yes he is working for CT, but the demos make sense to me.

http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Videos ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have a CT on my LCP because the LCP doesn't have much in the way of sights to begin with.

I say night sights first, and a Crimson Trace second, but I have both on my Kahr PM9. Not cheap, but cheaper than being dead and now I have all the advantages of both systems since you never know what kind of trouble might be headed your way.

G26ster wrote:One of the big benefits to lasers that I find is the ability to "accurately" fire without having to have the sights at eye level. There may be times in a life or death situation that you won't be able to extend your arms to sight your weapon with the night sights. I know, to some, that lasers can interfere with muscle memory and prior training/practice and be distracting. However, if you train/practice with both a laser and standard gun sights you will be able to do either.

I got my wife a Bersa Thunder 380 with CT laser in the grip. For her it is ideal as it will take a long time to get her up to good accuracy at a distance with sights. With the red dot on the BG, she can squeeze the trigger and be reasonably certain that he will be hit - and do this from any position without having to bring the gun up to eye level. To me this is better than the flash sight method. It's the modern version of point and shoot with increased accuracy. Yes, she is also learning point and shoot for short ranges so she won't be taking time to see the red dot or if the battery is low or the laser is off. So I'd go with the CT Laser over the night sights. I may add one to my carry weapon.

To me, the problem of accuracy with a laser sight is that it is very difficult to adjust the red dot to point of impact with any degree of accuracy - even though the units (at least, the good ones) are adjustable for windage and elevation - without something like a Ransom Rest to hold the pistol in a locked down position while zeroing the dot.

Even with lots of practice and good muscle memory, my arms and hands move around just the tiniest bit when I'm lining up the iron sights, and consequently, the sight picture moves around also. Pretty much anybody who is honest about it will admit the same. So when you're sighting the gun with the irons and trying to get the red dot to line up so that you know your red dot is zeroed at a known distance and "cowitnessing" with your iron sights, that dot is also moving around against the only unmoving fixed object - your target.

What that means is that you cannot be absolutely certain that the laser dot on the paper is where the bullet is actually going to go, unless you have the means of locking the gun down in a rest of some kind at the range so that your adjustment shots are absolutely repeatable until you have the bullets impacting as close to on top of the red dot as the inherent accuracy of that particular pistol will permit.

Now, maybe I'm obsessing, and the truth is that, within 7 yards, if the dot is on the center of mass, the bullet is going to hit somewhere in the center of mass. Like that video demonstrated with the guy on his back on the ground, putting the red dot on the bad guy standing over him is good enough.

But what if your target bad guy is partially behind cover and only partially exposed? Will you still have the confidence that your bullet is going to go where the red dot is? What if the target bad guy is partially hidden behind your wife whom he's holding hostage? Will you still have confidence that you can hit him using the red dot, if you haven't taken the time and effort to actually verify by means of a Ransom Rest? What if you've gotten lazy at the range and acquired the habit of relying on the laser for accuracy instead of your iron sights, and your battery goes down in an actual shooting scenario?

The analogous thing for me is my EOTech sight on my AR carbine. I love me some EOTech, and I use it at the range. BUT... I also practice with the irons, and I know that, at the known ranges of 25 yards and 250 yards, my iron sights will put the bullet in the same place as the EOTech's red dot will, within the accuracy limitations inherent in that particular rifle. And I can be certain of this because I have verified it from the bench.

If you're going to rely on a laser sight, you should do the same.

Actually, sighting in the red dot isn't hard if you really want to.

I bought a 9mm laser boresight. When I dropped it in my P239, it confirmed that my CT lasergrip was dead on at about 7 yards. Close enough for me.