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Can you carry in a hospital in Texas?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:39 am
by paadams
When I got my CHL back in 2007, you could not carry in certain locations regardless if it the 30.06 sign was posted legally or not. For instance hospitals were a no carry zone.

A co-worker stated yesterday that they law was changed, and that you could carry now carry in hospitals, amusement parks, churches and government meetings, if it wasn't legally posted that you can not. I don't remember churches being off limits, but I don't attend other than for weddings or funerals so I'm probably wrong on that one.

He sent an email this morning with the following, saying the law changed in 2009. Now since I work in a hospital and the signage that is posted is not the legal signs, this is of much interest to me. So, can I legally carry in a hospital?
PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Re: Can you carry in a hospital in Texas?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:48 am
by pbwalker
http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/46.035.00.html
§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate,
or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking
place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a
handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing
home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other
established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer
under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security
officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the
security officer's employment, the security officer violates a
provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or
outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for
use by the public that is located in a county with a population of
more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface
area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is
open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has
security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not
include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry
a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway,
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other
parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e)
is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under
Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony
of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that
the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed
the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been
justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical
reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas
Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 229, § 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 165, § 10.04, eff. Sept. 1,
1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, § 26, 27, eff. Sept. 1,
1997; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1420, § 14.833, eff. Sept. 1,
2001; Acts 2005, 79th Leg., ch. 976, § 3, eff. Sept. 1, 2005.

Re: Can you carry in a hospital in Texas?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:10 am
by Teamless
paadams wrote:So, can I legally carry in a hospital?
Unless it is a University hospital, and if it is not legally posted with 30.06, you can legally carry there.

The other issue, since you work there, is to know if by policy, are you allowed to carry? I would not ask your HR about it, but check out the policy manual.
So if you are not allowed to carry by policy, if you are caught, you can be fired, but have no legal issues (as long as it meets the "not a university hospital (UT etc) and if it is not legally 30.06 posted.

Re: Can you carry in a hospital in Texas?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:14 am
by LarryH
All that is true.

However, none of the sections of code that have been quoted have addressed the possibility of your being notified orally.

30.06(b) says "For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice by oral or written communication."

So if "someone in charge" TELLS you that the hospital management forbids you to carry, you have been notified and are then subject to the other provisions of 30.06.

Re: Can you carry in a hospital in Texas?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:24 am
by paadams
Thanks for the quick replies. I haven't been notified orally that I recall, but I'll have to check the employee manual.

Re: Can you carry in a hospital in Texas?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:49 am
by A-R
paadams wrote:When I got my CHL back in 2007, you could not carry in certain locations regardless if it the 30.06 sign was posted legally or not. For instance hospitals were a no carry zone.
This first sentence is factually inaccurate. Carry in hospitals has been legal since 1997 unless the CHLee has been given notice under PC 30.06. You were misinformed when you got your CHL in 2007. But this is not uncommon. I still have my CHL handbook from 1995-1996 and exemption in PC 46.035(i) is not included, but it is included in the 1999-2000 handbook. However, my instructor at my first renewal apparently missed this (or I missed it in the renewal class) because I didn't realize this until years later.

Re: Can you carry in a hospital in Texas?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:54 am
by A-R
paadams wrote:Thanks for the quick replies. I haven't been notified orally that I recall, but I'll have to check the employee manual.
Remember: to be "notified" under PC 30.06 the written notification in the employee manual must use identical language to 30.06 requirements. Only oral notification need not recite the exact verbage.

Of course, some people at DPS disagree with this, so YMMV, swim at your own risk, IANAL , etc etc.

My concern has always been did someone actually read the "no guns" language in a manual to you at some orientation (and can they prove they did so - audio recording, etc.)

Is this concern a bit paranoid? Yeah. But we are talking about a Class A misdemeanor here, revocation of CHL, and a lengthy trial and/or likely prison time if our interpretation is "wrong".

Re: Can you carry in a hospital in Texas?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:25 am
by paadams
austinrealtor wrote:
paadams wrote:Thanks for the quick replies. I haven't been notified orally that I recall, but I'll have to check the employee manual.
Remember: to be "notified" under PC 30.06 the written notification in the employee manual must use identical language to 30.06 requirements. Only oral notification need not recite the exact verbage.

Of course, some people at DPS disagree with this, so YMMV, swim at your own risk, IANAL , etc etc.

My concern has always been did someone actually read the "no guns" language in a manual to you at some orientation (and can they prove they did so - audio recording, etc.)

Is this concern a bit paranoid? Yeah. But we are talking about a Class A misdemeanor here, revocation of CHL, and a lengthy trial and/or likely prison time if our interpretation is "wrong".
I was discussing it with my co-worker again, and he said everyone signs a "No Weapons" policy paper in orientation. I don't remember doing this, but that doesn't mean I didn't.

Re: Can you carry in a hospital in Texas?

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:52 am
by A-R
paadams wrote:I was discussing it with my co-worker again, and he said everyone signs a "No Weapons" policy paper in orientation. I don't remember doing this, but that doesn't mean I didn't.
:eek6 Consult an attorney if you plan to carry. I know that sounds overboard, but you're way off into the rough grey area there.

My non-legal opinion: If you're discovered, they'll fire you so fast your head will spin. Could you also be charged with a crime? If the paper you signed didn't meet 30.06 requirements, logic says no. But since when did logic have anything to do with guns and the law? Either don't carry or make certain you're completely concealed, not even printing, if you do.

IANAL

Re: Can you carry in a hospital in Texas?

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:26 pm
by saltydog452
With a bunch of Grand-Kids and having offical geezer status, my bride and I find ourself visiting ERs too dang often.

I do not know what is, or isn't, legal in the parking lot. I don't really care too much. If there is a 'place' for J-Frames and Mouse Guns, it'd most likely be an ER parking lot.

salty