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How do the laws apply here?
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:09 pm
by rbftfire
A couple of co-workers and I were discussing a situation that one's daughter is in and I am having trouble figuring out how the laws would be applied here. Perhaps you folks can help me out.
The situation is this:
John and Jane (fake names) are married and live in a single family home. John is prohibited from possessing, owning, etc. a firearm due to multiple felony convictions

. Jane has a clear criminal record and is in no way a prohibited person (although one could argue that she should be adjudicated mentally defective for her choice of mate

). Can Jane keep a gun in the house without fear that John will go to jail for it (assuming it is discovered)? With a gun in the house, at what point is John in possession of it? What if Jane has it in her car but John is riding with her?
That makes me think of additional angles on this. What if I have someone riding with me that is a prohibited person. I have my CHL and I assume that if I'm wearing my pistol that they probably won't charge him/her with anything, but what if I'm driving and its in the glove compartment?
Thanks for your input.
Re: How do the laws apply here?
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:20 pm
by Keith B
rbftfire wrote:A couple of co-workers and I were discussing a situation that one's daughter is in and I am having trouble figuring out how the laws would be applied here. Perhaps you folks can help me out.
The situation is this:
John and Jane (fake names) are married and live in a single family home. John is prohibited from possessing, owning, etc. a firearm due to multiple felony convictions

. Jane has a clear criminal record and is in no way a prohibited person (although one could argue that she should be adjudicated mentally defective for her choice of mate

). Can Jane keep a gun in the house without fear that John will go to jail for it (assuming it is discovered)? With a gun in the house, at what point is John in possession of it? What if Jane has it in her car but John is riding with her?
That makes me think of additional angles on this. What if I have someone riding with me that is a prohibited person. I have my CHL and I assume that if I'm wearing my pistol that they probably won't charge him/her with anything, but what if I'm driving and its in the glove compartment?
Thanks for your input.
IANAL, but the only way I have seen this be legal is if Jane is in control of the firearm at all times, OR the firearm is locked in a safe where John TRULY doesn't have access to the firearm. In the car, as long as it was in Jane's control (i.e. on her body) and not in the glove box or out in the open where John has access to it, then IMO (non-legal opinion that is) they should be OK.
Being a felon in possession of a firearm can have nasty consequences for that person. There have been a lot of cases of this back in my home area of Missouri where law enforcement has been called for some issue, and they find that convicted felon John, Jim or Joe has a gun in their house, and they end up getting prosecuted for that and not the original minor issue that the police were called for in the first place.
Re: How do the laws apply here?
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:38 pm
by jagged97
IANAL, but it looks like after the fifth year after release from confinement (this includes supervision such as parole), a convicted felon may possess firearms at the premises where the person lives. There are some other caveats as well.
Here's the law:
Sec. 46.04. UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM. (a) A person who has been convicted of a felony commits an offense if he possesses a firearm:
(1) after conviction and before the fifth anniversary of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony or the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision, whichever date is later; or
(2) after the period described by Subdivision (1), at any location other than the premises at which the person lives.
(b) A person who has been convicted of an offense under Section 22.01, punishable as a Class A misdemeanor and involving a member of the person's family or household, commits an offense if the person possesses a firearm before the fifth anniversary of the later of:
(1) the date of the person's release from confinement following conviction of the misdemeanor; or
(2) the date of the person's release from community supervision following conviction of the misdemeanor.
(c) A person, other than a peace officer, as defined by Section 1.07, actively engaged in employment as a sworn, full-time paid employee of a state agency or political subdivision, who is subject to an order issued under Section 6.504 or Chapter 85, Family Code, under Article 17.292 or Chapter 7A, Code of Criminal Procedure, or by another jurisdiction as provided by Chapter 88, Family Code, commits an offense if the person possesses a firearm after receiving notice of the order and before expiration of the order.
(d) In this section, "family," "household," and "member of a household" have the meanings assigned by Chapter 71, Family Code.
(e) An offense under Subsection (a) is a felony of the third degree. An offense under Subsection (b) or (c) is a Class A misdemeanor.
(f) For the purposes of this section, an offense under the laws of this state, another state, or the United States is, except as provided by Subsection (g), a felony if, at the time it is committed, the offense:
(1) is designated by a law of this state as a felony;
(2) contains all the elements of an offense designated by a law of this state as a felony; or
(3) is punishable by confinement for one year or more in a penitentiary.
(g) An offense is not considered a felony for purposes of Subsection (f) if, at the time the person possesses a firearm, the offense:
(1) is not designated by a law of this state as a felony; and
(2) does not contain all the elements of any offense designated by a law of this state as a felony.
As far as the car, legal or not, I would make sure that the firearm is not within reach of the convicted felon. It is my opinion that if Jane needs to leave her gun in the car, Jane should invest in a lockable box to which only she has a key, and she should either have the gun on her person or in that box. (This is just my opinion. YMMV)
Re: How do the laws apply here?
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:36 pm
by Cobra Medic
jagged97 wrote:IANAL, but it looks like after the fifth year after release from confinement (this includes supervision such as parole), a convicted felon may possess firearms at the premises where the person lives. There are some other caveats as well.
That's state law. I think federal law is a lifetime ban unless they have their firearm rights restored.
Re: How do the laws apply here?
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:42 pm
by Hoi Polloi
An added issue is that I believe John would not be the only person in trouble. Isn't it an offense to supply a felon with a firearm? Jane could be charged as well.
Re: How do the laws apply here?
Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:17 pm
by rbftfire
Interesting thoughts. Especially the part that might possibly condemn Jane in all of this.
Thanks everyone.
Re: How do the laws apply here?
Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:16 am
by Grog
It reminds me of a quote by G. Gordon Liddy on the Howard Stern show in the mid 90s. Howard asked him if he owned any guns and Mr. Liddy stated that as a convicted felon, he could not.
Mrs. Liddy however, had a hell of a collection.
Re: How do the laws apply here?
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:36 pm
by priusron
There is no evidence required when it comes to revocation of parole. If you are on paPer aNd I have a baggie with marajuana residue in my wallet, and I state it is mine and you had no knowege, it doesn't matter. You will get locked up and go back to prison without legal representation.
You will be charged with possession of drugs even though it wasn't on your person.
Ron