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Saw this question on a gunny blog earlier today, but can't remember which one. Saved the newspaper link, tho. Not a cheerful story.
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Father has custody of two boys, mother (ex-wife) has custody of daughter. Husband takes boys to ex-wife's house for daughter's birthday party (all kids single digit age). Wife's dad is there. Perhaps some others.

Prior to the party, the ex-wife's ex-boyfriend had shown up, apparently had been drinking. She told him to leave and called cops, he left, threatening to kill her as he went.

Family shows up for the party. While it is going on, they hear someone pull in the drive way. Ex-wife goes out to see, it is ex-boyfriend, who pulls a gun out a toolbox. She runs inside to warn the rest.

Her dad goes out with his own gun and confronts the ex-boyfriend. Exchange of gunfire, dad staggers back into house wounded, collapses in laundry room.

Father and mother rushed the children upstairs, ex-boyfriend followed. She hid two of the kids in the attic, father locked himself in bathroom with one son. Ex-boyfriend fires through the door, several rounds striking father who is shielding his son. Son is unharmed.

Ex-boyfriend moves to bedroom where mother is on phone with 911. He tells her he is going to kill her. Wounded father comes into bedroom, causing enough disruption that mother can push out a window airconditioner and jump out (second floor). Ex-boyfriend shoots father three more times, then shoots mother twice in the legs as she is going out the window; she breaks lower leg bones on landing, but survives.

Ex-boyfriend goes back downstairs to finish her off. Wounded dad shoots him twice, killing him.

When cops arrive, ex-boyfriend is dead on stairs, dad is dead in laundry room. Father is in upstairs bedroom, is rushed to hospital where he dies.

====================================

In case of something like that.

In another thread, there is a discussion of what it is to have a "warrior's heart." Both the childrens' father, and their grandfather, had warrior's hearts in that they kept soaking up bullets but stayed in the fight until it was over. Tactical training or not, they rose to the occasion. Valhalla is full of such men. Rest in peace, boys. You did good.

MoJo wrote:In case of something like that.

Exactly. I still can't remember which blog I read it on, but it made the point that no matter how tranquil your own personal life, you never know when the guy or gal next to you has a threat coming that you have no insight to. If one of your kids had been invited to that birthday party...

Same answer as always, because I have no idea when bad things are going to happen.

The folks who criticize those who always go about prepared do so because they fail to understand the difference between being prepared to go looking for trouble, and being prepared for those hard to predict moments when uninvited trouble comes looking for them.

There are no words to describe the life-changing terror they must have experienced. That poor little girl who will forever associate this with her birthday. My heart is heavy with grief for them.

One of the things that my CHL instructor emphasized was that denial of danger signals can mean death or worse. A drunken ex-boyfriend who says (as he leaves) that he is going to kill someone is a danger signal of the first magnitude. I would like to think that I would pay attention to such warnings and take strong action immediately (like calling off the birthday party, calling the police, and arming myself to the teeth).

I would like to join those who feel heartbreak over this incident. I doubt anyone involved will every fully recover. May peace come upon them.

hangfour wrote:One of the things that my CHL instructor emphasized was that denial of danger signals can mean death or worse. A drunken ex-boyfriend who says (as he leaves) that he is going to kill someone is a danger signal of the first magnitude. I would like to think that I would pay attention to such warnings and take strong action immediately (like calling off the birthday party, calling the police, and arming myself to the teeth).

I would like to join those who feel heartbreak over this incident. I doubt anyone involved will every fully recover. May peace come upon them.

The article doesn't say how long he had been harassing her. While I completely agree, there is also a dynamic of being a long-term victim that that attitude doesn't take into account. If you live in a state of high alert constantly and you frequently deal with the same terrorizing threats, perhaps frequently calling the police, and nothing comes of it over and over again except a toxic level of stress, most people will go into a self-preservation mode that normalizes the high stress levels and allows them to function day in and day out with it.

It isn't like ignoring it at all because that couldn't be further from the truth, but it is similar on some levels. The brain has to figure out a way to keep you out of the pysch ward, basically, because you're in overload on a 24/7 basis. A long-term victim will adjust behaviors and interactions but when they're in that level of high alert so constantly that they can't function, they eventually force themselves to do "normal" things like birthday parties for their kids (with only a few family members, at home, which is safe but "normal") so that the person doesn't have complete and terrorizing control over their entire lives. Their scare-o-meters are so sensitive that a creak, a scratch, a gust of wind, etc can push them over the edge and end them up on the wrong side of the crazy line so they decide to ignore everything within a certain range in order to not go crazy. That works to create an appearance of calm for day-to-day life, but they often have panic attacks, nightmares, insomnia, etc which shows how close they still are to the line.

If she was a long-term victim or was suffering PTSD, it would explain why she responded by calling the police earlier in the day, perhaps she called her dad and asked him to bring his gun, and maybe she forced through the fear that she felt every day to give her daughter a normal birthday party. She clearly switched gears as soon as she saw the gun, but it sadly wasn't enough to stop a man intent on murder.

I would caution that everything that is written here will be archived on google and the like and could very well be searched by the children one day, so being sensitive to the fact that the woman, her children, and her family might be reading the responses when writing them would be wise and compassionate.

I only put my seatbelt on if I think I might get into an accident.

To hear this makes me sick. So yea anytime someone poses the question "Why do you feel you need to carry a gun?" we can tell sad stories like this. And with all due respect to the police by the time they are able to get there about all they can do is take a report.

What a horrible story. And what a profoundly stupid question.

maximus2161 wrote:To hear this makes me sick. So yea anytime someone poses the question "Why do you feel you need to carry a gun?" we can tell sad stories like this. And with all due respect to the police by the time they are able to get there about all they can do is take a report.

This is true.

If police are notified after killing violence has started, they're way behind the time curve.

Most killings are over in seconds to a few minutes. Even major active shooter incidents since Columbine average only 8 minutes or less.

When you add up the times it takes for someone to recognize what's happening, reach a safe location to make a call from, communicate critical info to a dispatcher, get units dispatched with that information, and travel to the location of the crime, it's pretty darn hard to get there before all the important action is over unless an officer was already really close to begin with.

Excaliber wrote:

maximus2161 wrote:To hear this makes me sick. So yea anytime someone poses the question "Why do you feel you need to carry a gun?" we can tell sad stories like this. And with all due respect to the police by the time they are able to get there about all they can do is take a report.

This is true.

If police are notified after killing violence has started, they're way behind the time curve.

Most killings are over in seconds to a few minutes. Even major active shooter incidents since Columbine average only 8 minutes or less.

When you add up the times it takes for someone to recognize what's happening, reach a safe location to make a call from, communicate critical info to a dispatcher, get units dispatched with that information, and travel to the location of the crime, it's pretty darn hard to get there before all the important action is over unless an officer was already really close to begin with.

Exactly.

The police have a hard job and they cant be everywhere so its up to us as responsible law abiding gun owners to be able to have the means to protect ourselves. Crossfire plays a 911 call in their CHL class about a woman who has a guy breaking into her house. It will chill you. Probably many have heard it. I forget the duration of the call but a lot of time passes while the victim is locked in a closet on the phone with 911 and police are en route. If the victim had not been armed there is no question she would not have survived. By the time the police got there it was over. The suspect was determined to kill the victim plain and simple.

I live by a statement of a smart person on this forum. "carry 24/7 or guess right" I don't guess too well. Property of -their name escapes me- but I didn't make it up.