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Be honest what the expected accuracy at 15 to 20 yrd from a compact or subcmpact pistol?
Within 6" circle? or 8" circle? or 2" bullseye? assume 2 hand standing unsported shooting.

Expected accuracy will be night and day with actual accuracy under stress, so if all the lore is correct about an armed confrontation happening within 5 yards, I'm not too concerned about it, honestly. I can fit my groups with the 1911 in a dessert plate at that distance and the Taurus will do a pizza box. That's if I take my time.

When I go to the range, while I would LOVE to be at bullseye at 15 yards, I am happy if I hit the 8" target at all.
At 15 yards, my front dot completely covers an 8" target, so I cannot zero in to the bullseye.

My thought process however, if in a defensive situation.
if I aim for what I think is center mass on an attacker, and I hit 8" left, right, up or down, I should still hit the person,and if not, hopefully the BANG BANG BANG sounds will make him turn around

If you can keep your shots inside an 8" circle at 15-20 yards at speed your shooting is combat accurate. The "COM" we are concerned with is a high chest hit in an area approximately 8". Hits elsewhere, while better than misses, are largely ineffective in quickly bringing the fight to a stop.

Food for thought: Rob Pincus defines "combat accuracy" as "any shot that significantly affects the target's ability to present a lethal threat."

I was very suprised at how accurate my LCP is considering it has no sights to speak of. I am no grand master and can keep all 50 rounds on a 8" plate at 15 yards.

Slightly better than the last time you hit the range.

Teamless wrote:When I go to the range, while I would LOVE to be at bullseye at 15 yards, I am happy if I hit the 8" target at all.
At 15 yards, my front dot completely covers an 8" target, so I cannot zero in to the bullseye.

My thought process however, if in a defensive situation.
if I aim for what I think is center mass on an attacker, and I hit 8" left, right, up or down, I should still hit the person,and if not, hopefully the BANG BANG BANG sounds will make him turn around

This assumes that you are directly behind the person. If you are off at an angle or if the person's torso is at 90 degrees (or any angle between zero and 90) to yours, or if the target is partially obstructed by any intervening obstacle (vehicle, store shelf, etc.) your available target area will be somewhere between a little to a lot smaller.

The importance of precise shot delivery escalates as the available target area declines.

Excaliber wrote:

Teamless wrote:When I go to the range, while I would LOVE to be at bullseye at 15 yards, I am happy if I hit the 8" target at all.
At 15 yards, my front dot completely covers an 8" target, so I cannot zero in to the bullseye.

My thought process however, if in a defensive situation.
if I aim for what I think is center mass on an attacker, and I hit 8" left, right, up or down, I should still hit the person,and if not, hopefully the BANG BANG BANG sounds will make him turn around

This assumes that you are directly behind the person. If you are off at an angle or if the person's torso is at 90 degrees (or any angle between zero and 90) to yours, or if the target is partially obstructed by any intervening obstacle (vehicle, store shelf, etc.) your available target area will be somewhere between a little to a lot smaller.

The importance of precise shot delivery escalates as the available target area declines.

Spot on (again).

Very good points.

Excaliber wrote:This assumes that you are directly behind the person. If you are off at an angle or if the person's torso is at 90 degrees (or any angle between zero and 90) to yours, or if the target is partially obstructed by any intervening obstacle (vehicle, store shelf, etc.) your available target area will be somewhere between a little to a lot smaller.

The importance of precise shot delivery escalates as the available target area declines.

I completely agree, but also I assumed (and did not point it out) that I am forced into a face to face, as my thought was (right or wrongly) that if i was beside a BG, I could potentially retreat / cover, rather than fire.

Teamless wrote:

Excaliber wrote:This assumes that you are directly behind the person. If you are off at an angle or if the person's torso is at 90 degrees (or any angle between zero and 90) to yours, or if the target is partially obstructed by any intervening obstacle (vehicle, store shelf, etc.) your available target area will be somewhere between a little to a lot smaller.

The importance of precise shot delivery escalates as the available target area declines.

I completely agree, but also I assumed (and did not point it out) that I am forced into a face to face, as my thought was (right or wrongly) that if i was beside a BG, I could potentially retreat / cover, rather than fire.

Most bad guys have seen enough folks shot to know that it's suicidal to stand still. Their "training" has all been on the street instead of at confined firing points on a square range where everyone stands stock still, takes careful aim at a target 15 or 20 feet away, and pats himself on the back when most of the rounds land somewhere on the paper.

When guns come out on the street, the first thing a bad guy will do and keep doing until the fight is over is move, and he will never do so in a manner that imitates a B27 target.

He'll work hard to make sure that the available target area he presents to you will be not only small, but it will be moving rapidly and irregularly - while he's emptying his magazine at you.

You'd better be following his good example and moving too.

I think that sort of assumes your bad guy will have experience with gun battles. We should be prepared for that, but it isn't always the case. Either way, I agree on moving. It has been a while, but I have heard people suggest that you should practice shooting while moving different directions if you can.

Accessories like crimson trace laser grips and weapon lights can help depending on the situation.

On carry guns, I naturally shoot better with some guns and not as well with others. I think I can learn to shoot well with any of them. Anything minute of man at speed is accurate enough.

I would also suggest practicing off hand shooting or shooting while looking across the top of the pistol (not lining up the sights). If you can learn to point shoot at shorter ranges, I imagine it can help you out in some situations.