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Just wondering and asking input.
How would using this type of 45 & 9mm ammo affect someone in a courtroom setting in a justifiable SD scenario. Would there by any impact on using this type of ammunition, by the prosecution, vs say speer gold dots? What are your thoughts?
thank alot.

If the shooting is justified, the carry ammo would have no bearing on the court case. Unless you are loading your own and injecting the hollowpoints with kryptonite.

I wish the Talon would come back

Rick343 wrote:I wish the Talon would come back

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_i ... point-ammo

At $39 for 50 rounds, it's a pretty penny. IMO, you're better off with Federal HST +P when it's available. It's much less expensive with better ballistic results. Just saying.

Rick 343 the Talon just changed names. you can get it now call Winchester Ranger. I online ordered it from AMMO MAN and just received today. I got it both in 9mm +P 127 gr and 45 acp 230 gr. So they do still make the Talon, just not black and Talon name not used.

Rick343...I mean ordered from Ammo to go not Ammo-man, unless they're the same. Sorry about that

McKnife, do you really like the Federal HST better. Did not see results on the testing. And, where can you get the Federal HST?

HarleyDave wrote:McKnife, do you really like the Federal HST better. Did not see results on the testing. And, where can you get the Federal HST?

I've seen a PDF comparing the ballistics of HST, Ranger Talon and old-school Black Talon, all in 230gr .45 ACP.

The expansion of all three rounds were tested in ballistics gelatin with Heavy Cloth in front; 3 rounds of each type of ammunition were fired. HST has the biggest average expansion (by hundredths of an inch) and the highest weight retention at 100%. HST ranked 1st, followed by Ranger Talon, then Black Talon.

All three rounds had comparable velocities which means you'll be safe with ANY of those choices for carry ammo.

Knowing this, I choose the one that costs the least. HST typically costs $27 for 50 rounds, and you have the option of +P for more velocity. You'll see above that Ranger Talon is almost $40 for 50 rounds! I've seen Black Talon on TGT for over $50 for 50 rounds - and it's many years old!!!

I choose HST, hands down. I carry .45ACP 230gr.+P HST in my XD-45 and 9mm 127gr.+P HST in my Glock 19.

HST is very desirable ammunition with armed-citizens and LEO's... so supply can be hard to find. Ammunitiontogo.com currently has it in 9mm but is out of stock in .45ACP. Check back every other week and it will show up sometime. They usually keep a few boxes on hand at their storefront, so if you call, they might save some for you.

HarleyDave wrote:Rick343...I mean ordered from Ammo to go not Ammo-man, unless they're the same. Sorry about that

We received last week a box of 45 ACP Bonded Ranger to try out -- from Ammo to Go. Took advantage of the shipping cost for some 38sp Golden Saber.

Thanks Mcknife, I'll watch the video tomorrow morning and go from there, but thanks for the expanded explanation. Appreciate it.
HarleyDave

But just to be clear, the name "Talon" has not been used by Winchester since 2000. If you see a box of Winchester ammo that has "Talon" anywhere on it, you know the ammo was manufactured between 1991 and 2000. You can see Winchester's line of "LEO" handgun ammunition at their Website: http://www.winchester.com/Products/le/h ... fault.aspx.

What until about a year-and-a-half ago was called Winchester Ranger SXT ammo is now referred to as Ranger T-Series. The SXT round, appearing right after the Talon was discontinued, was essentially the same as the Black Talon except without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. The standing joke was that "SXT" stood for "Same eXact Thing." It actually meant "Supreme eXpansion Technology." Winchester retained the same product numbers, but moved from "SXT" to "T-Series."

My daily carry is Winchester's RA45TP. This is the T-Series .45 ACP +P, with a 230-grain bullet. My personal opinion is that most if not all top-brand defensive ammo rounds are suitable options. I've trusted the Ranger +P for a number of years, so I choose to stick with it. Besides, I still have several boxes of it.

One caveat about the Ranger series is that you really need to check the Winchester Website to know what you're buying. For example, a few years ago, Sportsman's Guide had what seemed to be an incredible deal on Winchester Ranger .40 S&W 180-grain "Law Enforcement Ammunition." Looking at the fine print, though, it was Winchester product number RA40180HP. Perfectly good and serviceable ammo, but it is loaded to subsonic velocity, not standard .40 pressures. The product number for standard .40 S&W Ranger T-Series is RA40T for 180-grain bullets, and RA40TA for the 165 grain.

SKIPRR; well on the Winchester ammo I received the part number is ra9ta for t series 9mm and for the t series 45 ammo ra45t. So do you think those are the correct velocity that I want. Not really into more powerful, just curious. Thanks for the info and follow up info.

HarleyDave wrote:SKIPRR; well on the Winchester ammo I received the part number is ra9ta for t series 9mm and for the t series 45 ammo ra45t. So do you think those are the correct velocity that I want. Not really into more powerful, just curious. Thanks for the info and follow up info.

Yep; probably so. RA9TA is 9mm +P, 127-grain bullet weight, and a muzzle velocity of 1,250 fps. The RA45T isn't +P, but is a standard velocity .45 ACP load (885 fps) with a 230-grain bullet. The RA45TP is identical, save that it's loaded to a pressure that produces a muzzle velocity of 990 fps. You certainly won't be under-gunned with either of them.

Thanks SKIPRR, appreciate the input on the Winchester ammo.