TexasCHLforum.com

Forgive me guys, I'm just trying to understand things.

The thinking/rationale behind "LOCKDOWN"

Ok, I understand Lockdown at a prison when some riot breaks out, "so no one escapes"
All doors automatically lock etc.

San Antonio College just installed those electronic locks.
Aren't they just providing a service?
Around 9:05 a.m. to 9:15 a.m.: Cho was seen in Norris Hall, an Engineering building. Using the chains he had purchased at Home Depot, Cho chained the building's entry doors shut from the inside in order to stop anyone from escaping.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_T ... e_timeline" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I mean it's a good service. If someone doesn't have to carry 20 pounds of chain, they can carry more ammo right?

I think the idea is to have them stay hunkered down and not go running into the criminal's field of fire. However, as you note, one size does not fit all.

Good point. Hopefully they have enough brains to enable it in every other building besides the one that the shooter is in. Even then, I wouldn't want to be trapped in any building. Maybe there is a secondary shooter waiting for the locks to engage?

I don't know anything about the locks San Antonio College installed, but hopefully they let people out; that they just "one-way" lock the normal entrances.

Thomas wrote:Good point. Hopefully they have enough brains to enable it in every other building besides the one that the shooter is in. Even then, I wouldn't want to be trapped in any building. Maybe there is a secondary shooter waiting for the locks to engage?

I don't know anything about the locks San Antonio College installed, but hopefully they let people out; that they just "one-way" lock the normal entrances.

Hopefully ... I agree.
At Virginia Tech, At Luby's ... most escaped through Windows.

Sounds like the attempt to "protect" could turn into "kidnapping" or "False imprisonment"...

or am I way off base here? I would not be amused were I locked in, no matter the situation...

I think the idea is to lock the buildings so the bad guy won't go outside and engage the LEO waiting outside. Because it is a school the only one with a gun is the bad guy. This way they students inside the building can provide the target rich environment, this way the bad guy will not need to look outside the buildings and shoot at LEOs who are busy setting up perimeters., staging and communications with the press.

This is one reason why it is so important not to allow guns inside the buildings. We want the Bad guy to concentrate on the students, and worry about getting shot. If we give the bad guy enough time he will be able to shoot himself.

This is the strategy that has been perfected in Columbine, Waco and Virginia Tech.

In virtually all types of occupancies except prisons, life safety codes prohibit the installation of locks that cannot be released from the inside for egress.

Some schools install electronic locking systems that can lock many doors at the same time on command to prevent entry, not exit. The purpose is to keep a violent situation outside from moving inside, and to keep a situation in one building from spreading to others.

If you're in an unaffected area, this isn't a bad thing.

If you're in the same room as the shooter, it won't be of much help.

If the locks prevent people from leaving the building it sounds like someone needs to contact the local Fire Marshal.

Excaliber wrote:... and to keep a situation in one building from spreading to others.

If you're in an unaffected area, this isn't a bad thing.

If you're in the same room as the shooter, it won't be of much help.

I think the doors will still have panic bars that are on all commercial exit doors. You don't want the shooter to roam from building to building. Not much you can do if he's in you're building, but at least the police can rule out the other locked down buildings.

So it locks people out that want in ... Like the first officers on the scene ... ok got it.

TxSheepdog wrote:

Excaliber wrote:... and to keep a situation in one building from spreading to others.

If you're in an unaffected area, this isn't a bad thing.

If you're in the same room as the shooter, it won't be of much help.

I think the doors will still have panic bars that are on all commercial exit doors. You don't want the shooter to roam from building to building. Not much you can do if he's in you're building, but at least the police can rule out the other locked down buildings.

This is a widely held but completely false assumption which is reinforced by the "call 911, lock the door and cower in the corner" procedures most organizations inflict on the people they're supposed to protect today. If you want to see a senior administrator develop a blank stare and start to blubber and drool, ask him or her what tactics his organization's violent intruder procedure recommends for those most in need - the persons in direct contact with the shooter. If you want to see him quickly find pressing business elsewhere, ask him why his procedure doesn't include the last resort counterattack option the Department of Homeland Security's literature recommends.

I and a very few other real world practitioners who care more about saving lives than avoiding controversy teach seminars on proven effective options for surviving active shooter situations, even if unarmed. They're based on the dynamic realities of these situations, and don't involve a lifetime of studying the black arts of the ninja. Many fall into the "Why didn't I think of that?" category and can readily be used by almost anyone.

The answer to that question is that people who don't deal with violent conflict on a regular basis and haven't studied the very clear patterns that emerge from active shooter incidents when closely examined as a group don't know how to apply their thinking skills in that foreign environment. They also think of a gun as a magic tool for complete dominance because they haven't seen the really creative things criminals due to make life miserable and dangerous for police who come after them. Once shown the principles that govern these situations, most folks get downright creative and come up with additional solid ideas that will work just fine in their environments.

Many of the most effective techniques are drawn from the things criminals do to become police nightmares and attack officers during building searches. They're just as effective for good guys attacking criminals too.

Active shooter situations are survivable. You just have to know the right things to do and get to doing them right away.

Things I have considered:

If possible, stabbing the BG with a pen in the neck while BG is distracted...

Clobbering over the head with my laptop.....

Those little chairs we sit in make nice bludgeons....

The bottom line is that if I cannot escape, I'm not going to make it easy on the BG to take me. Period.

Hopefully the Campus Carry legislation will pass and I will have another option.....

Liberty wrote:This is one reason why it is so important not to allow guns inside the buildings. We want the Bad guy to concentrate on the students, and worry about getting shot. If we give the bad guy enough time he will be able to shoot himself.

This is the strategy that has been perfected in Columbine, Waco and Virginia Tech.

Armed teachers and students might stop the bad guy too soon to satisfy the Brady bloodlust.

cbunt1 wrote:Sounds like the attempt to "protect" could turn into "kidnapping" or "False imprisonment"...

or am I way off base here? I would not be amused were I locked in, no matter the situation...

I know that is what I would charge if they locked me down on any campus.

OldCurlyWolf wrote:

cbunt1 wrote:Sounds like the attempt to "protect" could turn into "kidnapping" or "False imprisonment"...

or am I way off base here? I would not be amused were I locked in, no matter the situation...

I know that is what I would charge if they locked me down on any campus.

There's no need to tilt at windmills that aren't even turning.

An adult can't legally be confined against his will. In a college setting, if a student wants out of a classroom or building, all he has to do is get up and leave. College staff can advise against that course of action, but they have no authority to stop it.

I had a bank officer who told me that during power failures, they immediately locked the doors from the inside and customers couldn't leave. I told her if that happened while I was in the bank, I would press a complaint and have the responsible official arrested.

After the 9/11 disaster when security advised folks to just stay put and they died in the building collapse, aware folks everywhere act on their own decisions. If you recall watching the unfolding news during the underground steam main explosion that ripped an intersection apart a couple of years ago, regardless of anything that was announced or not, everyone in every nearby building evacuated pronto.

Keep in mind that in an active shooter situation, evacuation without knowing the location of the shooter may not be the best option. If you meet him in the hall on the way out, you'll likely become a statistic.