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OK, I learned something new today. Some of you may already be aware of this but it was news to me.

Recently a co-worker told me I could use his dads land to hunt on. He told me I could have free run of the place as long as I didn't disrespect the property and left it as I found it. Easy enough. I'm in!!!

Two weeks ago I drop some corn and set up a couple cams.
I go back today and find that one of my cams has been replaced with a business card from the local Game Warder saying to call him if I would like my cam back. No biggie.

I called him, we had a short chat and then set up a place to meet to get my cam back.

After we met, while we were talking the normal line of questioning you would expect took place.

He informed me that the guy who leases the property to harvest hay had called him when he found my cams.
He stated that the guy had been having problems with trespassers out there and thats why he called the Game Warden.

When I told him who granted me permission and what business I had out there he informed me that the property owners son has no legal wright to grant me access to the property since it is on lease.
He said that the only people that can allow me out there are the actual property owner and the guy who leases the pastures for hay.
If I wanted to continue to use the property, since it is currently on lease, I had to get with my buddies dad and draw up paperwork allowing me on the lease.
Makes sense I suppose, it was just news to me since my buddy said his dad said it was ok. I took him for his word assuming there wouldn't be any hiccups.

When I told my buddy about all this he was irritated!
I guess he thought he had more pull in the situation than he actually did since it his dads land and they all dove hunt and what not out there.
I tried to explain it all to him but he wasn't particularly receptive.
He told me I could go back down there and where to go to avoid any future issues. I graciously declined.
I had already been made aware by a fella with a gun and a badge and I'm not about to go side stepping him because my buddy said it was ok.
I told him the only way I'd go back down there is if he and his dad wanted to join me for a hunt.

Any input?

Also, the Game Warden couldn't have been any more professional, courteous and understanding to my dilemma.

...he surely was that....and I'm wondering now if he gave right to control access to his lessee in the lease, can the owner even give you that right if the lessee says he doesn't want you there??? sounds like a question for a lawyer...now where can we drag one of them up???

It is real simple. Unless the owner retains rights, such as hunting, in the lease, those rights belong to the Lessee, not the Lessor.

...that would be my guess...except for something like maintenance, repairs, or timber rights, I wouldn't want just anyone wandering through the pasture I'd leased for my ice cream makers...

OldCurlyWolf wrote:It is real simple. Unless the owner retains rights, such as hunting, in the lease, those rights belong to the Lessee, not the Lessor.

I get that but it seems backwards doesn't it? One would think that the property owner would have ultimate rights to the land no matter what. Learn something new every day.

It may be different by State. In PA, a friend of our had land that was leased out for farming. The lease specifically gave the farmer the right to plant and harvest but nothing more.

So, if the Lessee in this case wanted to set up drilling rigs, that would be his right and he would get to keep the money from them?

chasfm11 wrote:It may be different by State. In PA, a friend of our had land that was leased out for farming. The lease specifically gave the farmer the right to plant and harvest but nothing more.

So, if the Lessee in this case wanted to set up drilling rigs, that would be his right and he would get to keep the money from them?

I don't know. I'm going to see if I can get in touch my my buddies dad and find out exactly what the guys rights to the land are.

MedicMan218 wrote:If I wanted to continue to use the property, since it is currently on lease, I had to get with my buddies dad and draw up paperwork allowing me on the lease.

A permission slip can be very simple.

Here is an example one I used when I lived in Ohio. Drop the Ohio-specific language, and you have a good starting point for permission, unless the landowner no longer has the right to give you permission.

That's a great template for me to start with!
Thanks frog!!

Similar scenario:

You lease an apartment.

Apartment complex owner's son ... gives a buddy of his a key to your apartment and tells them go on in ...

You get home and discover Goldilocks ate with your porridge spoon... and installed a "Nanny cam/spy cam"

Who knows what the guy leasing the property might have planted out there, or what he cooks in his still, or who he meets out there .... probably expected no spy cams.

RPB wrote:Similar scenario:

You lease an apartment.

Apartment complex owner's son ... gives a buddy of his a key to your apartment and tells them go on in ...

You get home and discover Goldilocks ate with your porridge spoon... and installed a "Nanny cam/spy cam"

Who knows what the guy leasing the property might have planted out there, or what he cooks in his still, or who he meets out there .... probably expected no spy cams.

It may not be the same thing, at all. Typically, rural land leases are limited to certain specific purposes.

My mother has leased out or land to a neighbor specifically for his cattle to graze. He has verbal permission to us a firearm as he sees fit to dispatch any dogs, coyotes, or other predator that may pose a danger to his cattle.

Neither the lease nor permission affect what our rights are on the land.

Pawpaw wrote:My mother has leased out or land to a neighbor specifically for his cattle to graze. He has verbal permission to us a firearm as he sees fit to dispatch any dogs, coyotes, or other predator that may pose a danger to his cattle.

Neither the lease nor permission affect what our rights are on the land.

That sounds about right. Unless the lease grants the farmer exclusive rights, I think the game warden is confused. However, I believe it's good practice to have written permission when hunting another's private land, unless you're in the company of the owner or his agent.

Does anyone else remember this story? http://amarillo.com/stories/011510/web_ ... date.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...wonder what the company did to 'em?

OldCurlyWolf wrote:It is real simple. Unless the owner retains rights, such as hunting, in the lease, those rights belong to the Lessee, not the Lessor.

This.

Think of it as if you lease a beach home for the summer. You might not spend every day at the house, but you're leasing it. Now the home owner's son tells his buddy "hey, go use the pool whenever you want." No provision has been made in your lease, so the buddy in the pool is trespassing.

jamisjockey wrote:Think of it as if you lease a beach home for the summer. You might not spend every day at the house, but you're leasing it. Now the home owner's son tells his buddy "hey, go use the pool whenever you want." No provision has been made in your lease, so the buddy in the pool is trespassing.

I read the lease and you're only leasing the house. Not the pool. The son's buddy is not trespassing.