TexasCHLforum.com

This morning I shot against a timer for the first time in almost 15 years. (Thanks to an IPhone timer app mentioned in another thread. )

From a relaxed stance I waited for the timer to beep, drew from my concealment holster, not concealed though, and double tapped shots into a paper place at 7 yds. Below is the record of the 10 strings I shot.

...... Shot 1 .... Shot 2 ... Split Time
1...... 2.46 ...... 3.30 ...... 0.84
2...... 2.44 ...... 3.27 ...... 0.83
3...... 2.37 ...... 3.30 ...... 0.93
4...... 2.46 ...... 3.39 ...... 0.93
5...... 2.37 ...... 3.11 ...... 0.74
6...... 2.37 ...... 3.11 ...... 0.74
7...... 2.09 ...... 2.65 ...... 0.56
8...... 2.46 ...... 3.39 ...... 0.93
9...... 2.09 ...... 2.65 ...... 0.56
10..... 1.81 ...... 2.37 ...... 0.56

Min 1st ...... 1.81 ...... Max 1st 2.46
Min 2nd ...... 2.37 ...... Max 2nd 3.39
Avg 1st ...... 2.29
Avg 2nd ...... 3.05 ...... Min Split 0.56
Avg Split ...... 0.76 ...... Max Split 0.93

The fact that the fifth and sixth strings are identical is a big coincidence and the 10th string is the only one I really pushed for speed. All shots were hits except the second shot on the 1st string. I just didn't get a good shooting grip on that cold draw.

I don't think the split times are too bad but I do want to get the first shot to less than 2 seconds, which shouldn't be that hard. The question I have would what would be a reasonable goal with a cover garment?

(Tables are a real pain to do on the board editor! )

Interesting.......
Buy an Ed Brown, Wilson or Les Baer and cut a few tenths off all!

2 seconds on a 8" circle at 7 yards from concealment is a good goal.
1.65 seconds on a Q target at 7 yards from concealment is the old FAM standard. It's good stretch goal.

To reach either of them is going to take dryfire. Start out doing perfect draws slowly. Fast and accurate draws are not about stomping on the gas. They are about no wasted motion in your draw stroke. Drawing up high and refining the sight picture as you press out will allow you to fire the shot the instant the gun is in position. Lastly, the gun has to decelerate as it reaches the shooting position. So, if you are pressing out fast without a smooth deceleration, you get a fast draw with the gun wobbling around at the end.

There is an urge to push yourself to go very fast in dryfire. If can be fun to just stomp that gas and see what you can do. Resist that urge. Train yourself in dryfire, test yourself in live fire. Understand that live fire times will almost always be slower that dryfire times.

Look at the timing progression in these drills from Steve Anderson's book.
http://www.brianenos.com/dnld/steve_sample.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is a great way to push yourself just a bit faster each time. (Ignore his suggested goal times, these are for IPSC grandmasters and race rigs.)

I'm not sure what the trigger's like on a S&W 6944 but you can easily get your draws below 2 seconds.

Gringop

The question I have would what would be a reasonable goal with a cover garment?

IMO 1.5 and under is a good bar for concealment. Not too fast, not too slow, achievable by most, AND surpassable by most.

Fast and accurate draws are not about stomping on the gas. They are about no wasted motion in your draw stroke.

Absolutely. This is where a good coach comes in handy, or a buddy who is capable of identifying inefficient movement.

I'd start by looking at exactly HOW and WHERE you are carrying, and if there is anything you can do to improve efficiency. A gun cant here, an adjustment there, raising or lowering the holster, or even using a different type of holster altogether, can save you tenths of a second here and there, and that time starts to add up.

Next I'd look at the cover garment. I am faster using an untucked button down shirt than I am using a tucked shirt, so I try to go untucked as much as possible with the bottom 2 buttons unbuttoned to facilitate speed. Anything you can do to your cover garment to facilitate speed = good.

Practice and rehearse EACH step of your draw stroke, whichever type you use, and save time by doing things first, more efficiently, and second, faster. More often than not, when you take a hard look at your draw stroke, you will find little inefficiencies that can be cleaned up to save some time.

There is an urge to push yourself to go very fast in dryfire. Resist that urge.

That "HURRY UP GO FASTER!!!!" urge is the same thing you experience under stress, which NEEDS to be controlled, and the dry fire and live fire training is WHERE you learn to control it. Or not...

Train yourself in dryfire, test yourself in live fire. Understand that live fire times will almost always be slower that dryfire times.

This is CRUCIAL. Absolutely CRUCIAL.

You've GOT to know your capabilities and limitations, and If you KNOW it takes you 1.5 or 2.0 or WHATEVER do get off an accurate shot, than THAT'S how long it takes. Period. ACCEPT that. A first shot miss is useless, HITS are what counts.

Push speed during training, but always be deliberate and in control. You will soon find that times will start to drop, and know the speed you can reliably draw from that is neither TOO slow or TOO fast, but "just right".

you have to aim to do each draw perfectly even if it's slow - doesn't matter.

Absolutely.

The BEST draw speed is relative to each individual. A fast draw with the occasional flubb / miss is fine during training, however, real world draw speed needs to be deliberate and reliable EVERY time, and at the speed that lets you get rounds on target, be it sub 1, 1.something, or 2 and beyond.

Average human reaction time is around .25 ish. So if somebody has a gun on you, and the WILL to use it, you are not going to outdraw them before they get off a shot, whether from concealment or not. But it doesn't matter, because it's not about who gets off the first shot, but who gets off the first ACCURATE shots (note "shots" is plural), and when it comes down to it, you are not fighting the man, you are fighting the WILL of the man. Will can rapidly disappear when they start worrying more about saving their hide than completing their criminal act, especially when that worry involves a sucking chest wound.

Decreasing shot splits is a double edged sword because in order to shoot faster, you have to SEE faster, and in order to SEE faster, you have to SHOOT faster. Takes a LOT of ammo. An easy way to pick up speed and see faster is to run "rhythm" drills or "cadence" drills or whatever you want to call them. Simply fire a string of shots at an equal speed and in a rhythm / cadence that allows you to see the sights come back on target, and as you get used to the rhythm / cadence, you will be able to recognize the sight picture faster and faster as you progress. If you use a timer you can track your speed and watch your splits decrease.

1st: .8, .8, .8, .8, .8
2nd: .7, .7, .7, .7, .7
3rd: .6, .6, .6, .6, .6
4th: .5, .5, .5, .5, .5

etc...

When your groups get too big, slow down, too TIGHT, speed up.

Just like with the draw, you should be able to identify your "comfort zone". Most folks should be able to fire pretty comfortably and accurately around the .4 range up close, with the speedsters pushing sub .2's.

A good trainer can help immensely, as can regular practice and competition.

Best of luck.

Thanks for all the good advice. It gives me some realistic goals. Not planning to on setting the world on fire or trying to compete with Rob Latham but would like to feel that I am competent.

Since this is the first time I've tried this and was close to 2 seconds I know I'll have little problem getting below that. I think working on both drawing and my split times I'm going to try to get down to 1.5 seconds for first shot and both within 2 seconds. I'm sure that is doable. At least I have an excuse to get out an shoot.

...I'm slow...always been slow...but I compensate in two ways...being extra alert...I LOOK AT the people anywhere near me in public...I notice what's going on in a store that I walk into, etc...and I have my mind absolutely made up long ago so I don't waste time thinking about "will I" "should I" or "can I" questions...I do everything I can do not to be caught in a game of catch-up...where I'm sure to lose...so far, so good...still only the original orifices...

...an excellent handgun training book is No Second Place Winner by retired Border Patrol Officer Bill Jordan, long gone on before us...teaches technique, mindset, and he was one of the fastest and best shots ever...he trained on no wasted motion, too...he could draw, fire, and HIT in a little over a quarter of a second...consistently...was given credit for development of the Model 19/66 and the Jordan holster...may find some of his footage on the net...his book is still often available on the net...inexpensive...

...he taught practice as real work, too...and from him I learned to draw a revolver and shoot from the hip, throwing my shots into the mouth of a 5-gallon bucket at 15' without bringing the gun above my belt level...I picked up a demo of a laser grip for a J frame a coupla years ago and hit the doorknob about 18' away at the store with the first squeeze of the laser...from belt level...that is nothing but practice...he was a Marine and disciplined to the max, yet humble and approachable...very friendly...a fine man...