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This weekend I came home from college in Waco to celebrate my birthday. Since it was the Red River Shootout, there were a lot of UT students driving north. There were a lot diving like idiots and playing with other cars i assumed they knew. I got cut off several times. In one instance, i was passing an 18 wheeler with a car right in front of me when a truck with the "horns" in the rear window decided he wanted to get in front of me. I didn't let him over. There was a huge space behind me that he could get. He didn't like that too much and started flashing his lights and giving me the finger out of his window. I noticed that he had a passenger as well. Suddenly, traffic stopped. I was stuck in front of a guy with anger issues at me with nowhere to go. Luckily, i have a small, fast car and managed to slip into the other lane and jump onto the service road after being stopped for about 30 seconds, but really if i was stuck and the driver behind me decided to become aggressive, what would do? I couldn't think of any good way to engage with regards to traffic the way it was. If i missed, or if he had a gun and started firing, there is a lot of potential for other people to get hurt. I welcome opinions and experiences please.

I just wave at them, smile like its my fault, then they feel bad that they waved only one finger at me! This works well, I drive I-10 thru San Antonio twice a day and use it daily!

JMHO

SATX-Scrub wrote:I just wave at them, smile like its my fault, then they feel bad that they waved only one finger at me! This works well, I drive I-10 thru San Antonio twice a day and use it daily!

JMHO

Avoid the crowd if you can. Granted there aren't great north-south options for you but knowing that there's a possibility for increased traffic/college student migrations such as the big game, holidays, end/beginning of school, I try to travel on I35 during weekdays in the pre-fishing/hunting hours when most of said youthful rebels tend to be snoozing or at least thinking about it.

Maybe the person with the 'horns' was inviting you to tea and wanted to know if you wanted one lump or two?

...reckon maybe that bunch woulda had trouble countin' the fingers you waved with??? you can only avoid some of the situations where you make folks mad...some folks are just gonna get mad...concentrate on your response when they do...let it be minimal and measured so that a reasonable person would agree that you didn't escalate the situation...which you seemed to have done quite well...I wouldn't have written you a ticket after you explained why you jumped to the service road...not many things more dangerous than an idiot behind the wheel in a rage...

I still like the way they explained it to us in my NC course best...

1. Avoid
2. Don't escalate
3. De-escalate
4. Leave

If none of these options are possible, you can meet force with an equal or lesser force (don't escalate).

Words
Soft-hands (pushing, moving)
Hard hands (striking)
Non-lethal objects (stick, baton, mace)
Lethal Force

(or something like that... )

All the time minding your responsibility to de-escalate if possible.

RoyGBiv wrote:I still like the way they explained it to us in my NC course best...

1. Avoid
2. Don't escalate
3. De-escalate
4. Leave

If none of these options are possible, you can meet force with an equal or lesser force (don't escalate).

Words
Soft-hands (pushing, moving)
Hard hands (striking)
Non-lethal objects (stick, baton, mace)
Lethal Force

(or something like that... )

All the time minding your responsibility to de-escalate if possible.

...in a perfect world, I'd agree...but it's far less than perfect these days...Texas law has been changed so that action 4 ( Leave)...is not required...we have the right to stand our ground if we're where we have a right to be there...common sense and good judgement still say to leave in a lot of situations, but we should know our options and the law...
...as to the continuum of force rules...taught to LEOS and security guards...they don't apply as law in Texas...our instructors teach a different set of criteria for self-defense...and you can legally respond with a gun to a stick or chain, for instance...it's about how you perceive the danger to yourself or who you're protecting...and a stick or baton, contrary to those who embrace the above list...are very lethal...we don't require that step-by-step increase in force in Texas...

...bottom line for me is can I keep this situation from getting worse without increasing the danger for me and mine...or what do I have to do to stop the threat...it's not about who's the man or macho pride...Swamp Fox was a great warrior....

speedsix wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:I still like the way they explained it to us in my NC course best...

1. Avoid
2. Don't escalate
3. De-escalate
4. Leave

If none of these options are possible, you can meet force with an equal or lesser force (don't escalate).

Words
Soft-hands (pushing, moving)
Hard hands (striking)
Non-lethal objects (stick, baton, mace)
Lethal Force

(or something like that... )

All the time minding your responsibility to de-escalate if possible.

...in a perfect world, I'd agree...but it's far less than perfect these days...Texas law has been changed so that action 4 ( Leave)...is not required...we have the right to stand our ground if we're where we have a right to be there...common sense and good judgement still say to leave in a lot of situations, but we should know our options and the law...
...as to the continuum of force rules...taught to LEOS and security guards...they don't apply as law in Texas...our instructors teach a different set of criteria for self-defense...and you can legally respond with a gun to a stick or chain, for instance...it's about how you perceive the danger to yourself or who you're protecting...and a stick or baton, contrary to those who embrace the above list...are very lethal...we don't require that step-by-step increase in force in Texas...

...bottom line for me is can I keep this situation from getting worse without increasing the danger for me and mine...or what do I have to do to stop the threat...it's not about who's the man or macho pride...Swamp Fox was a great warrior....

I agree... I didn't intend to imply that the list was a mandate and had to be rigorously followed.
I find it a good guideline. A reminder that a response must be proportional to the threat.
And certainly a giant swinging a chain (or large fist) is potentially lethal

I would let him get in front of me and give him a smile and a thumbs up! and tell my wife how my chl has made me a great driver

I would keep moving. Distance is my friend.

Also the previous advice about avoidance, deescalation, etc.

Aside from all the other advice -- it always makes me feel better to call 911 and give a description of the knuckelhead and his vehicle, license, etc. I am not a cop, but I'll bet going after someone that is already ID'd as a dangerous knucklehead is a lot more interesting than just sitting back and waiting for somebody to drive by at 10 over. Trooper might not be able to act on my specific incident, but I figure if the knucklehead is acting like a knuckelhead now, he will act like one again, so if the trooper see sees the guy cross his path he may only have to observe for a few minutes to witness some misdemeanor or felonius knuckleheadedness.

RoyGBiv wrote:

speedsix wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:I still like the way they explained it to us in my NC course best...

1. Avoid
2. Don't escalate
3. De-escalate
4. Leave

If none of these options are possible, you can meet force with an equal or lesser force (don't escalate).

Words
Soft-hands (pushing, moving)
Hard hands (striking)
Non-lethal objects (stick, baton, mace)
Lethal Force

(or something like that... )

All the time minding your responsibility to de-escalate if possible.

...in a perfect world, I'd agree...but it's far less than perfect these days...Texas law has been changed so that action 4 ( Leave)...is not required...we have the right to stand our ground if we're where we have a right to be there...common sense and good judgement still say to leave in a lot of situations, but we should know our options and the law...
...as to the continuum of force rules...taught to LEOS and security guards...they don't apply as law in Texas...our instructors teach a different set of criteria for self-defense...and you can legally respond with a gun to a stick or chain, for instance...it's about how you perceive the danger to yourself or who you're protecting...and a stick or baton, contrary to those who embrace the above list...are very lethal...we don't require that step-by-step increase in force in Texas...

...bottom line for me is can I keep this situation from getting worse without increasing the danger for me and mine...or what do I have to do to stop the threat...it's not about who's the man or macho pride...Swamp Fox was a great warrior....

I agree... I didn't intend to imply that the list was a mandate and had to be rigorously followed.
I find it a good guideline. A reminder that a response must be proportional to the threat.
And certainly a giant swinging a chain (or large fist) is potentially lethal

...we got giants???

ELB wrote:Aside from all the other advice -- it always makes me feel better to call 911 and give a description of the knuckelhead and his vehicle, license, etc. I am not a cop, but I'll bet going after someone that is already ID'd as a dangerous knucklehead is a lot more interesting than just sitting back and waiting for somebody to drive by at 10 over. Trooper might not be able to act on my specific incident, but I figure if the knucklehead is acting like a knuckelhead now, he will act like one again, so if the trooper see sees the guy cross his path he may only have to observe for a few minutes to witness some misdemeanor or felonius knuckleheadedness.

...you're right on that...cops hate paperwork...which idiots usually require...

ajwakeboarder wrote:... In one instance, i was passing an 18 wheeler with a car right in front of me when a truck with the "horns" in the rear window decided he wanted to get in front of me. I didn't let him over. There was a huge space behind me that he could get. He didn't like that too much and started flashing his lights and giving me the finger out of his window...

And just imagine, if you had tempered your testosterone just a little bit, and let him in, none of this would have happened, yes?

I've had to deal the the consequences of someone getting mad on the road and doing something stupid - in my case, I wasn't even the one she was mad at, but she still bounced off my little car. The resulting paperwork, money out of my pocket for an uninsured driver, hassle over getting the car fixed, and subsequent time off talking with investigators and DA's convinced me that if I can avoid such a situation in the future, my manhood will not be challenged in the slightest!

n5wd wrote:

ajwakeboarder wrote:... In one instance, i was passing an 18 wheeler with a car right in front of me when a truck with the "horns" in the rear window decided he wanted to get in front of me. I didn't let him over. There was a huge space behind me that he could get. He didn't like that too much and started flashing his lights and giving me the finger out of his window...

And just imagine, if you had tempered your testosterone just a little bit, and let him in, none of this would have happened, yes?

I've had to deal the the consequences of someone getting mad on the road and doing something stupid - in my case, I wasn't even the one she was mad at, but she still bounced off my little car. The resulting paperwork, money out of my pocket for an uninsured driver, hassle over getting the car fixed, and subsequent time off talking with investigators and DA's convinced me that if I can avoid such a situation in the future, my manhood will not be challenged in the slightest!

Maturity speaks. Is anyone listening?