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I had my first encounter with the police since getting my CHL last night (friday 12/29/06). I was leaving a gas station by my friend's apartment and I saw a police car in the right-most lane. I didn't want to cut a cop off on a friday night at midnight, so I pulled into the middle lane instead. Well, he got right behind me and (I assume) began to run my plates. I needed to turn into my friend's apartment complex and the officer was now in the middle lane, so I changed over to the right lane and made the first turn into his complex. The officer did the same.

This had to look suspicious to the officer - he probably figured I was trying to get off the road and away from him. He immediately lit me up and I pulled into the nearest open two parking spots, turned my dome lights on and kept my hands on the steering wheel. The rather young officer approached and informed me that he pulled me over for "making a wide right hand turn back there at the gas station". I thought that was a pretty ridiculous thing to pull me over for - it was obvious I just didn't want to cut him off, but I understand - two young guns on new year's weekend who probably appeared to be trying to get away from him. He asked if I lived in the complex and I told my friend (the passenger) did and I was taking him home.

He asked for my ID and insurance and I handed him my CHL and DL - he immediately tensed up and took a slight step back. He asked if I was currently armed and I said "yes sir" and he asked where. I informed him my pistol was on my left side at 9 o'clock. He said "that's fine - just make sure it stays there." He then asked my passenger to put his hands on the dash because "having a gun in the car makes him nervous".

Another unit showed up and I now had 4 officers standing around my car. The young officer yelled "CHL" and they all sort of took position around my car. This really started to make me nervous, but hey - whatever makes him more comfortable I suppose. I asked him if I could retrieve my insurance information from the glove compartment and he told me to go ahead. I gave him all the info and he returned to his car to run it.

About 2 minutes later he returned to my car and asked if I had my contacts in and gave me my paperwork and told me to have a good night and be safe.

All in all, I would say it was a positive enough experience. The officer's reaction to my CHL put me a little on edge, but I also understand that I looked guilty of something the way we dashed into the complex and all.The officer was very professional and courteous and I left without a ticket or written warning, so I can't complain.

Hopefully the first officer's coworkers will remind him that 99.9% of the time, encountering CHLs does not warrant summoning a second unit. The wide right turn pretext sounds pretty thin, and the way that the CHL and firearm (albeit concealed) just amped him further make me think there was something else that piqued his interest. I would guess the seemingly-evasive driving, and/or maybe they were on the lookout for a stolen car similar to yours. But it sounds as though he generally kept his composure throughout, which reflects well on him.

If he was being followed by 100 other cars, I can understand your haste in getting in front of him. Next time, maybe give extra consideration to letting the police go past first.

Other than that, a good contact for everyone involved.

We have no way of knowing if the officer called for another unit, or it was dispatched as routine. Many departments send back up for traffic stops unless and until the stopping unit disregards it.

State law requires right turns to be made as close to the right hand edge of the roadway as possible. (right lane) it is good proactive police work to stop cars for minor violations. You can establish PC for larger charges, or discover warrants. If nothing unusual is discovered, the officer lets the person go with a verbal warning, and the violator feels he got a break.

I once made such a stop, and arrested the driver for an Felony Aggravated Sexual Assault warrant.

I made a no license plate light stop another time and the vehicle was stolen, just stolen. The owner did not even know it was out of his driveway.

Those are just a couple of many examples of proactive police work.

yerasimos wrote:Hopefully the first officer's coworkers will remind him that 99.9% of the time, encountering CHLs does not warrant summoning a second unit.

Yep, in my Stephenville encounter, he waved off the backup unit after seeing the CHL. Probably not the best idea on his part, but it sure set a good tone for the rest of the stop.

txinvestigator wrote:We have no way of knowing if the officer called for another unit, or it was dispatched as routine. Many departments send back up for traffic stops unless and until the stopping unit disregards it.

State law requires right turns to be made as close to the right hand edge of the roadway as possible. (right lane) it is good proactive police work to stop cars for minor violations. You can establish PC for larger charges, or discover warrants. If nothing unusual is discovered, the officer lets the person go with a verbal warning, and the violator feels he got a break.

I once made such a stop, and arrested the driver for an Felony Aggravated Sexual Assault warrant.

I made a no license plate light stop another time and the vehicle was stolen, just stolen. The owner did not even know it was out of his driveway.

Those are just a couple of many examples of proactive police work.

Good follow up post.

If I had to guess the other unit heard the traffic stop call out. You have a multiple occupant vehicle well after dark. If an available unit is anywhere in the area they are going to at least do a fly by the check the scene to see what it looks like.

David

This thread hit on a pet peeve of mine but one which is still somewhat conflicted. I understand txinvestigator's perspective as a LEO but the libertarian in me always has a flashback to a scene of an officer in black boots asking for "Papers please!" in a thick German accent. The conflict stems from the fact that many (most?) felony arrests start with a traffic stop.

I guess I just look guilty because I tend to be stopped for lots of "fishing expeditions" and almost always leave with just a warning. Pre-CHL, I had three stops over the course of 6 weeks. The first was for driving a on a Friday night, slow rolling to a stop light, and taking off once it turned green. In that case the deputy wouldn't even tell me why he had pulled me over until he had ran my license and registration. I think he was just looking for a DUI and realized that I was not drinking with my wife and infant daughter in the car. The second was a very professional DPS trooper who said I failed to use a blinker during a lane change. I did but it was quick because I was moving over to avoid a disabled vehicle on the side of the road. He was insisted there was no blink but was otherwise very cordial. The final stop in the series was with the same DPS trooper. This time it was for a "window tint" check. I asked him if he remembered pulling me over 2 weeks prior. He didn't but asked if he had given me a ticket or a warning. When I told him it was a warning and I was in the same vehicle and the tint was the same since I bought it (2001 model bought used in 2003). Got my third warning in a row. Now I've gone and jinxed myself

If I ever get asked permission for a search, I hope the officer understands why my response will be "You may not search my vehicle until my attorney is present". My brother-in-law is a LEO but I've heard war stories that really worry me. I'm also friends with lots of lawyers who have seen things first hand, albeit in states other than TX, that would make you want to join the ACLU

IMO, an officer should always tell the violator up front the reason for the stop. Many officers are not trained to do that, but they should be.

It is not lawful for an officer to stop a vehicle simply to check for license or insurance.

Are there officers that do? I have no doubt, but they are in the large minority, and they should suffer consequences for doing so.

As far as the attorneys, they don't see things first hand, they only know what their client tells them. ;)

The one incident I was thinking of was a law school student who went on a ride along with two New Mexico sheriff deputies. She said she witnessed two incidents of fairly outrageous abuse of indians when they tried to avoid eye contact, etc. I've never personally experience anything along those lines but I've played sports/hunted/fished with LEOs all my life. I think every profession has bad apples but criminal justice sometimes attracts thrill seekers who are "more equal than the other animals". This attitude is the cause of most police resentment in certain neighborhoods in my estimation. If more "psychological judo" was used in the "adult ego" state instead of force in the "parental ego" state, the outcome would be better for all. That said, I know there has only been one perfect person to walk the earth and we can only hope that when we goof up that the judges are more like Solomon than not.

txinvestigator wrote:IMO, an officer should always tell the violator up front the reason for the stop.

I tend to agree with you.

I don't know but I've been told that some officers ask, "Do you know why I stopped you?" in hope that the driver will say something incriminating like, "I only had one drink," or "You're not going to look in my trunk, are you?"

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:IMO, an officer should always tell the violator up front the reason for the stop.

I tend to agree with you.

I don't know but I've been told that some officers ask, "Do you know why I stopped you?" in hope that the driver will say something incriminating like, "I only had one drink," or "You're not going to look in my trunk, are you?"

- Jim

Jim-
That is exactly what was asked of me last time I got pulled over....I answered that I was lazy and did not replace my inspection sticker. He seemed to appreciate the straight forward approach for a moment and proceeded to write me a ticket for it! I likely got away with a hundred traffic violations for the one that I got gigged with. It was a lesson learned for me.....no biggie.

jbirds1210 wrote:That is exactly what was asked of me last time I got pulled over....I answered that I was lazy and did not replace my inspection sticker. He seemed to appreciate the straight forward approach for a moment and proceeded to write me a ticket for it!

See, you incriminated yourself.

You could have said No, and when the officer pointed out that your inspection sticker was expired, acted surprised.

I get paranoid when police cruisers follow me. (It's an involuntary reaction.) One day a local patrol car was pacing me on a four-lane highway in a town where the police don't have much to do. I ran a mental checklist and realized my inspection sticker was about four months expired.

Luck was with me that time, and I got the car inspected the next day.

- Jim

I do like seamusTX when I'm followed by LEO and run a mental check. But very very seldom get stopped in my personal vehicle. On the other hand, driving a truck, I get stopped regularly and dot'ed. It's just the nature of the job. I have not yet been stopped since receiving my CHL. We'll see how that's going to turn out! Hopefully, like the other stops, they will be just as good.

Dirt Dauber wrote:On the other hand, driving a truck, I get stopped regularly and dot'ed. It's just the nature of the job.

I had a friend who was a truck driver. (She's still my friend, but she quit driving a truck.) Her opinion was the police treated truck drivers like prey.

- Jim

It seems that way at times. Yet I've met a lot of LEO's that way and hopefully they will remember me! Long haulers run into them and leave the area where I'm local (gravel hauler ) and run into same ones over and over. I try to be as cordial as possible and be on my way. Just like me, they're doing a job and have been friendly. I still get a ticket now and then though.

seamusTX wrote:I had a friend who was a truck driver. (She's still my friend, but she quit driving a truck.) Her opinion was the police treated truck drivers like prey.

Of course; the fines are higher! Plus, they are usually aren't local, and aren't likely to be able to show up for a court date, even if they are inclined to fight the ticket.