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I live in Waco Tx and attend Baylor University. In around a one mile radius there has been almost 15 robberies in 2-3 weeks! The police have not caught this single robber and I am beggining to suspect that he lives in one of the apartment complexes because of his ability to appear, rob someone, and then disappear without a vehicle. Five of those six robberies have happened within about 30 feet of where my car is parked each day. The robber does the same thing each time and it is apparent that he is very good at it. He hides and waits for his victim then he comes from behind and puts a gun to their back and robs the student.

With that in mind I have been being very careful lately as he seems to rob students right before school around 7:30-9:45! I know right they just cannot catch this guy! Only one student has been harmed but was not shot just hit in the face.

Hypothetically, lets say that the robber snuck up behind me and held me a gunpoint. If he then robbed me and turn to run away if I was to turn and fire upon him would this no longer qualify as self defense? I am really looking for advice on what to do because it is such a precarious situation. Thanks.

Situational Awareness is your best friend. Be very aware of your surroundings, including all potential hiding places the robber might use, particularly as you approach or depart from your vehicle.

You are no longer defending yourself if the robber has begun fleeing -- he no longer represents a threat to your person. (Edited to add) The previous is my feeling only. Note, as posted below, the Texas Penal Code says that shooting an actor fleeing after commission of certain crimes is OK.

Best of luck to you in staying out of the robber's path.

Unless he's running in a direction that's a threat to you, it's not self defense. If you want to shoot him, just do it while he's pointing the gun at you. Then it's a clear case of self defense.

I am not a lawyer... This is NOT legal advice.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetFo ... CHL-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Start on page 57.

Specifically... [emphasis added]

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetForms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf wrote:PC §9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible,
movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under
Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly
force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary,
robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal
mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing
burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime
from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by
any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover
the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial
risk of death or serious bodily injury.

"Unless he's running in a direction that's a threat to you, it's not self defense. If you want to shoot him, just do it while he's pointing the gun at you. Then it's a clear case of self defense."

...that is not correct...if a person is committing an aggravated(armed) robbery, and is fleeing, armed, in the commission of that robbery, you are justified in using deadly force to stop him...Texas PC 9.31...if the robber, after committing the robbery, threw down the gun and stolen objects and begged for mercy, then turned and ran...you might be or not...see Texas PC 9.42...if you see him the next day, you are not...

The key thing for me is my wallet, laptop, car, etc worth all the legal trouble i might get into for shooting a fleeing robber? For me the answer is no. All those material items can be replaced. Like others have said, situational awarness will help you alot.

speedsix wrote:"Unless he's running in a direction that's a threat to you, it's not self defense. If you want to shoot him, just do it while he's pointing the gun at you. Then it's a clear case of self defense."

If the crook is running in a direction that's not a threat to you, it's not self defense. It may be defense of property or some other justification but it's not self defense.

bayouhazard wrote:

speedsix wrote:"Unless he's running in a direction that's a threat to you, it's not self defense. If you want to shoot him, just do it while he's pointing the gun at you. Then it's a clear case of self defense."

If the crook is running in a direction that's not a threat to you, it's not self defense. It may be defense of property or some other justification but it's not self defense.

Bayouhazard, you just put your words from the third post of this thread into speedsix's mouth. ??? He certainly was not agreeing with the premise that bad-guy-running-away = no-self-defense.


In any case, I thing it is a really bad idea to automatically presume that a guy who just threatened my life with a gun is no longer an imminent threat to my life and limb just because he is running away but still in gun range. Whether I shoot him as I boogie to cover or just boogie to cover is going to depend a lot on his precise actions.

If he has a gun, your wallet (which contains your address), and possibly the keys to your home; are you not in fear of your life as he runs away. I agree that the stuff can be replaced, but I would be very uncomfortable knowing an armed felon has my adress and keys.

As has been said, situational awareness will solve your problem.
You should be in Condition Orange between apartment door and car door.

cubbyjg wrote:The key thing for me is my wallet, laptop, car, etc worth all the legal trouble i might get into for shooting a fleeing robber? For me the answer is no. All those material items can be replaced. Like others have said, situational awarness will help you alot.

I see it a little bit different, to me the key question will be are there people around and whats my bullet going to hit if it does not hit my target, if its clear beyond him and there are no kids playing around us I will take my chances with legal trouble before I let him get away. as someone else already pointed out, I would rather that then sit at home knowing a man with a gun has my address and knows I own guns (I assume he knows what a CHL is )

I just want to chime in and add my vote for Situational Awareness. While in the USAF I traveled to quite a few countries on deployments and temporary duty assignments, as well as being stationed in the UK and Iceland. I didn't have the ability to have a weapon in those places, it was simply illegal and I would have been the one in trouble if caught with one. Much like our college campuses here, unfortunately. Be aware of your surroundings and if something doesn't look right, it very likely isn't. I'm not saying to be paranoid, but don't go through life in a bubble like so many others do, either. Firing a weapon in self-defense, defense of others, or of property, is VERY SERIOUS BUSINESS. It should be something you MUST do if you are to live through the situation, to sustain the lives of others, or to protect property that cannot be easily replaced. And that last one is the real judgement call, so to speak. Most of the time, I'm going to let property go because if nothing else, the legal fees are probably going to add up to more than what my property is worth. A lot of bad guys mess up after a while, they are only human. I hope that law enforcement is able to get this guy sooner than later. Stay aware, be safe and good luck.

Rex B wrote:As has been said, situational awareness will solve your problem.
You should be in Condition Orange between apartment door and car door.

and think this is the best advice. Keep your guard up and be prepared to act if the situation arises. Paranoia and cautiousness are two different things.

rgoodwill wrote:I live in Waco Tx and attend Baylor University. In around a one mile radius there has been almost 15 robberies in 2-3 weeks! The police have not caught this single robber and I am beggining to suspect that he lives in one of the apartment complexes because of his ability to appear, rob someone, and then disappear without a vehicle. Five of those six robberies have happened within about 30 feet of where my car is parked each day. The robber does the same thing each time and it is apparent that he is very good at it. He hides and waits for his victim then he comes from behind and puts a gun to their back and robs the student.

With that in mind I have been being very careful lately as he seems to rob students right before school around 7:30-9:45! I know right they just cannot catch this guy! Only one student has been harmed but was not shot just hit in the face.

Hypothetically, lets say that the robber snuck up behind me and held me a gunpoint. If he then robbed me and turn to run away if I was to turn and fire upon him would this no longer qualify as self defense? I am really looking for advice on what to do because it is such a precarious situation. Thanks.

About 5 robberies per week for 3 weeks straight, always between the hours of 7:30 -9:45, 1/3 of the robberies have happened within 30ft +/- of one location.... I'm sure Waco's finest and the BU Popo are all over this and
they might be able to catch the BG in another 3 weeks or so.... ...... the term Campus Carry comes to mind.....

gemini wrote:
About 5 robberies per week for 3 weeks straight, always between the hours of 7:30 -9:45, 1/3 of the robberies have happened within 30ft +/- of one location.... I'm sure Waco's finest and the BU Popo are all over this and
they might be able to catch the BG in another 3 weeks or so.... ...... the term Campus Carry comes to mind.....

Yeah. I'm not too fond of the police down here. I haven't seen a non campus officer at all in the 5 months i've lived down here. Legally, I can't carry on campus, but I leave my handgun locked in my car and carry a pocket knife everywhere i go. I know it isn't much, but it's better than nothing. I go to a Tech school about 3 miles north of Baylor.