TexasCHLforum.com

Apologies in advance if this has been hashed out before -- if so feel free to point me to the thread.

... inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

It's not clear to me how motorcyclists are supposed to comply with this. (Note that I'm talking about the "Traveling" part of the law, as I don't yet have my TX CHP.)

If I'm stopped, is it better to have it on me, or in my backpack (which is bungee'd to the seat) or other bike-mounted bag?
Does it need to be unloaded?
In a locked pistol rug or other container?

Thanks!

"On you" on a motorcycle is a tricky thing without a CHL. If you stop anywhere except home or work you gotta leave it in/on the bike. I don't like leaving it in my truck and there's no way I'm leaving it on my bike.

With a CHL is easier and I know it can be openly carried going to and from the home, but it must remain concealed while riding just the same as if you were in a car. It does not have to be unloaded either way.

dev_null wrote:Apologies in advance if this has been hashed out before -- if so feel free to point me to the thread.

... inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

It's not clear to me how motorcyclists are supposed to comply with this. (Note that I'm talking about the "Traveling" part of the law, as I don't yet have my TX CHP.)

If I'm stopped, is it better to have it on me, or in my backpack (which is bungee'd to the seat) or other bike-mounted bag?
Does it need to be unloaded?
In a locked pistol rug or other container?

Thanks!

If you're driving around on your bike, it can be carried pretty much however you want as long as it's concealed: on your person, in a saddlebag, in a backpack, loaded or unloaded, whatever have you. If you're not traveling, it needs to stay in or on your bike when you get off for gas, lunch, or other activities, which is tougher with a bike than a car since it's difficult to take a gun off your person and lock it up in a saddlebag without anyone noticing, for example. If you are traveling, which means going a fair distance from your everyday circle of life events, it can also be carried openly (if you're brave) and you can keep carrying it on your person as long as your activities are still related to traveling, like getting gas or a bite to eat while still on the road.

I'm sure people are going to chime in real fast with how you should be way too scared to ever, ever, ever say you're traveling, but it's a common sense call as I see it. Lots of motorcycle trips are long, winding, relaxing travels through the countryside, and the following case would be a very citable precedent for carrying in such a situation, due to the sheer number of miles you put under your belt while doing so:

Allen v. State, 422 S.W.2d 738 (Tex. Crim. App. 1967) Appellant who was traveling 120 miles from air force base to home for weekend was traveler within statute permitting carrying pistol if traveler.

IANAL!

OK, maybe I'm confusing the issue by referring to 'traveling' -- my understanding is that under the new laws I can, without a CHL, take a firearm from my house to my vehicle, then to (for example) a friend's house, and back again, as long as the weapon isn't carried openly...?

dev_null wrote:OK, maybe I'm confusing the issue by referring to 'traveling' -- my understanding is that under the new laws I can, without a CHL, take a firearm from my house to my vehicle, then to (for example) a friend's house, and back again, as long as the weapon isn't carried openly...?

The problem is when you get to your friends house. It is not "your" house, so I think once you walk away from your vehicle with your gun and it is not to a place such as a range that you would be unlawfully carrying a weapon, otherwise known as UCW. If it remains concealed on your bike at your friends house then you're fine.

Going to the shooting range is a better example because you're legal at home, you're legal while riding there, and you're legal at the shooting range.

IANAL. TCIAL.

OK, better example, thanks.

But my questions still stand:

Am I understanding the law correctly?
Does it matter legally (not strategically, that's a different matter) whether on my person vs on the bike if stopped?
Does it need to be empty? Locked up?

Thanks for your patience with the n00b questions. TX is very different from VA, where I had a CWL.

(And before y'all point out the obvious, yes I know I need to get my CHP when I can.)

dev_null wrote:OK, better example, thanks.

But my questions still stand:

Am I understanding the law correctly?
Does it matter legally (not strategically, that's a different matter) whether on my person vs on the bike if stopped?
Does it need to be empty? Locked up?

Thanks for your patience with the n00b questions. TX is very different from VA, where I had a CWL.

(And before y'all point out the obvious, yes I know I need to get my CHP when I can.)

It does not need to be empty or locked up. It can be on your person, but when you get off the bike and you will be told to get off the bike if you are stopped by a LEO I think you are UCW without a CHL. So, the better thing would be to have it in a tank bag or another container on the bike.

...if a person were on a motorcycle carrying on his person as the MPA provides (concealed) and he were stopped by the police...would he not do as one in a closed vehicle would do and notify the officer that he is carrying under MPA and the weapon is concealed on his person...and ask the officer how he should remove it before he gets off the bike...so that he's not in violation rather acting under the officer's direction?

speedsix wrote:...if a person were on a motorcycle carrying on his person as the MPA provides (concealed) and he were stopped by the police...would he not do as one in a closed vehicle would do and notify the officer that he is carrying under MPA and the weapon is concealed on his person...and ask the officer how he should remove it before he gets off the bike...so that he's not in violation rather acting under the officer's direction?

Of course, but I still think it get real interesting at that point compared to a car.

Thanks for the help, folks!

C-dub wrote:

dev_null wrote:OK, better example, thanks.

But my questions still stand:

Am I understanding the law correctly?
Does it matter legally (not strategically, that's a different matter) whether on my person vs on the bike if stopped?
Does it need to be empty? Locked up?

Thanks for your patience with the n00b questions. TX is very different from VA, where I had a CWL.

(And before y'all point out the obvious, yes I know I need to get my CHP when I can.)

It does not need to be empty or locked up. It can be on your person, but when you get off the bike and you will be told to get off the bike if you are stopped by a LEO I think you are UCW without a CHL. So, the better thing would be to have it in a tank bag or another container on the bike.

I agree. Once a LEO tells you to get off the bike you are the UCW. Does nt haveto be locked up or unloaded.

RPBrown wrote:

C-dub wrote:

dev_null wrote:OK, better example, thanks.

But my questions still stand:

Am I understanding the law correctly?
Does it matter legally (not strategically, that's a different matter) whether on my person vs on the bike if stopped?
Does it need to be empty? Locked up?

Thanks for your patience with the n00b questions. TX is very different from VA, where I had a CWL.

(And before y'all point out the obvious, yes I know I need to get my CHP when I can.)

It does not need to be empty or locked up. It can be on your person, but when you get off the bike and you will be told to get off the bike if you are stopped by a LEO I think you are UCW without a CHL. So, the better thing would be to have it in a tank bag or another container on the bike.

I agree. Once a LEO tells you to get off the bike you are the UCW. Does nt haveto be locked up or unloaded.

If I were carrying on my person on a motorcycle and were pulled over, I would wait until the cop walked over to step off the bike and first tell him that I was carrying and see if he told me to get off the bike after that, etc. As long as you're still sitting there, you're legal to carry under §46.02; if the cop orders you off your bike but knows that you're carrying, there's no way it could be UCW in my eyes - he knew you were carrying and gave you an order to essentially break the law. If you don't, you break the law by refusing his order; if you do, he's compelling you under the color of law to violate §46.02. No judge in the state is going to tolerate that sort of tomfoolery there. Penal Code §8.06 pretty much spells that out, provided it's the cop telling you to do it.

Unfortunatly the MPA law is going to be how it is interpreted by any LEO that you may have conact with until it reaches a DA or possible Judge to rule on. When I was waiting for my CHL to arrive I did not have my handgun with me when on the bike unless I was going to the range to shoot and even then it was in a bag attached to my sissy bar. It made no sense to me to carry it just when I was bike as outlined under MPA. Only in Hollywood can somebody draw and shoot from a moving 2 wheeler. Personally I would wait for your CHL to arrive, it is the cleanest way and could save you a ride with flashing lights.

Salty1 wrote:Unfortunatly the MPA law is going to be how it is interpreted by any LEO that you may have conact with until it reaches a DA or possible Judge to rule on. When I was waiting for my CHL to arrive I did not have my handgun with me when on the bike unless I was going to the range to shoot and even then it was in a bag attached to my sissy bar. It made no sense to me to carry it just when I was bike as outlined under MPA. Only in Hollywood can somebody draw and shoot from a moving 2 wheeler. Personally I would wait for your CHL to arrive, it is the cleanest way and could save you a ride with flashing lights.

Another alternative is to carry in a way that's not on or about his person. That way he has it if he's traveling with an overnight stay, if he's self employed and going to work, etc. Like you said, shooting while riding is Hollywood, and while the motor is running the throttle and brakes are usually a lot more useful to save your bacon.