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Ok, I will have to say that after further testing, I HATE Universal powder. Even loading it beyond Hodgon's minimum, it blows unburnt powder everywhere. Heck you can see it coming out the barrel when fired. It sucks. It jams up the cylinder on my revolver after 12 rounds or so and my hand is covered with the stuff.

I tested these 200 grain bullets I got from precision with Titegroup even though they don't recomend it. It seemed to do fine, however I would like to find a little bit lighter load to speed up target aquisition for Steel Challenge as mentioned before.

I am considering trying either Clays Trailboss or HP38, I just want to know which one shoots the cleanest, or does anyone have a recomendation of a good clean burning powder capaple of making loads in the low 700s or high 600s fps without blowing chunks of garbage out.???

Im on the search.
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That's what's funny is Precision recomended using a slower powder and are against Titegroup (because it burns too fast) but it sure shoots cleaner. I have found some data on Clays and it looks promising. Just curious how clean it burns at those slower loads. I think I will head out to the club and pick up some Clays to try.

Clay's is very clean burning on my .45 ACP 200 gr LSWC loads. I put up with the crappy metering because it runs so clean and is cheap.

Jumping Frog wrote:Clay's is very clean burning on my .45 ACP 200 gr LSWC loads. I put up with the crappy metering because it runs so clean and is cheap.

Yes, I just picked up a pound and it does look like metering may be a problem. I'll keep an eye on it.

What load are you running?

I found this on Hodgdon's site.

200 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon Clays .451" 1.225" 3.6 759 11,800 CUP 4.3 888 17,000 CUP
200 GR. SPR JHP Hodgdon Clays .451" 1.155" 3.9 714 15,200 CUP 4.3 785 17,700 CUP

I also found this on handloads..com

Velocity OAL Primer Source
45 ACP
200gr LSWC 3.2 gr CLAYS 600 fps 1.185" Win LP guest
Accurate load, very mild recoil. Used 12 lb. recoil spring in Springfield 1911A1. My new load for steel plates.

Email author: nichold
1 Handloads

The velocity seems way off on that one though.

Anyway, maybe I am headed the right direction. I'll start making some different loads and test tomorrow if I can. I need to get it figured out quickly since we have a practice match Saturday. Then Texas Open the next week. Lot of loading. LOL

Have you asked local bullseye target shooters? They should have a lot of softball 45 load data.

230gr Precision Delta round nose over 4.1 of Clay's is about as good as you will get with reasonable presures and power factors. There are other loads that are just as good but I haven't found one better.

Lambda Force wrote:Have you asked local bullseye target shooters? They should have a lot of softball 45 load data.

No such shooters around here. At least none I know of.

jason237m wrote:230gr Precision Delta round nose over 4.1 of Clay's is about as good as you will get with reasonable presures and power factors. There are other loads that are just as good but I haven't found one better.

Sounds good , however I am using Precisionbullets 200 gr rnfp, so I will be working up a similar load. I don't want a total wimp load, but I want it smooth and fast. "Comfortable" as one of the old pros said this past week.

Trail Boss is very clean burning and meters almost like water. It is very bulky and it's impossible to double charge a pistol case. I shoot 4.0 grains with a 230 gr Rainier bullet. Soft shooting, accurate, just makes PF and will function my 1911s. Try it you'll like it.

Jumping Frog wrote:Clay's . . . runs so clean and is cheap.

MoJo wrote:Trail Boss is ....

Not criticizing Trail Boss, just pointing out some comparisons . . .

At current Powder Valley prices using 200 gr LSWC load data, loading 100 rounds at maximum charge is $0.89 per hundred for Clays and $1.41 per hundred for Trail Boss. Loading at minimum charge is is $0.75 per hundred for Clays and $0.90 per hundred for Trail Boss.

Of course, current Powder Valley prices for Clays is $116 per 8 lbs. I am still working off 16 pounds I purchased at $86 per 8 lbs. My cost is $0.55 per hundred (min) to $0.66 per hundred (max).

I load mine to 3.9 gr, but don't get too hung up on 3.9 vs 3.8 vs 4.0. I don't think a couple of tenths make any noticeable difference. I am simply loading at 3.9 because my Lee Pro Auto Disk powder measure drops 3.9 easily with one of the preset disk sizes, and I don't want to deal with using the double disk kit or the adjustable charge bar.

Jumping Frog wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:Clay's . . . runs so clean and is cheap.

MoJo wrote:Trail Boss is ....

Not criticizing Trail Boss, just pointing out some comparisons . . .

Jumping Frog,

Your cost comparison is interesting but, if you look at the cost of the powder charge as a deal maker or breaker you are overlooking the big picture. Looking at cost Clays is $0.0089 per round or $8.90 per thousand. Trail Boss is $0.141 per round or $14.10 per thousand a difference of $5.20 per thousand or $0.0052 per round. Most people might waste more money than that by spilling soft drinks while loading those 1000 rounds.

Cost of components is important to me but, not as important as producing the ideal load for my purposes.

Thanks for all the info. ! Now it's out to the shop to load some. Hopefuly I can get out to the range this afternoon to test. I'll be back.

Ok, back from the range.

Using the Clays I loaded with 3.0 gr, 3.2, 3.5, and 3.9 gr. They all shot fine, but everything under 3.9 was leaving spent and unspent powder in the chambers as well as the barrel. YUCK.

I really like the feel of the 3.5 however I don't think I can deal with the mess during a match.

I do have a new question though. I got to thinking, I am really not sure what the OAL should be with these bullets. AS an afterthought I loaded six rounds 1/100 shorter OAL just for grins. It shot a tad cleaner than the 3.9 load that was longer. I assume because of increased pressure, and reduced interior space for the powder.

These bullets are .565 long, so how long should the OAL be?

Would setting them deeper help the 3.5 load clean up?

Seabear wrote:These bullets are .565 long, so how long should the OAL be?

Would setting them deeper help the 3.5 load clean up?

It isn't the overall bullet length that answers that question because it depends on the nose length to base length dimensions.

Generally, you seat a 200 gr LSWC bullet so that about 0.030", or about the width of a fingernail, is showing above the case rim. As you can see below, both bullets have different nose profiles so they have drastically different cartridge lengths. But both have about the same amount of shoulder showing above the case rim.



The dirty powder is function of pressure/charge weight. When the load gets too low, you start blowing out unburnt powder. This gets even worse with slower burning powders, like AA #7 for example.

If you shorten the OAL, all you are doing is increasing the pressure. If your goal is to minimize felt recoil, there is no discernible recoil difference between Load A that achieves X fps velocity by using a couple of tenths less powder in a shorter case versus achieving the same pressure/velocity with a slightly larger charge in a longer case. You still have a 200 gr traveling at 700-odd feet per second.

If you want to minimize felt recoil, you'd get more dramatic results from shooting a 185 grain bullet.