TexasCHLforum.com

Why does it seem unimaginable to be driving down the street in your hometown; being pulled over for no reason; your family told to get out of the car, and then searched as a common criminal while you watch your wife and daughter being physically violated. It's happening everyday at the airports; and now 50 miles inland from the border. When will the checkpoint be at the end of your driveway?

Do our rights get more oblique the further away from the center of the country?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... tv7DU#t=0s

So what would have happened if the BP found some illegals in the truck?
Free healthcare
Free education
Reduced college tuition...

Only in America.... Literally.

Jim Beaux wrote:Why does it seem unimaginable to be driving down the street in your hometown; being pulled over for no reason; your family told to get out of the car, and then searched as a common criminal while you watch your wife and daughter being physically violated. It's happening everyday at the airports; and now 50 miles inland from the border. When will the checkpoint be at the end of your driveway?

Do our rights get more oblique the further away from the center of the country?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... tv7DU#t=0s

I seem to recall that events/situations such as these led to the revolution.

Just sayin'.

Anygunanywhere

I wonder if the BP Agent was a United States Citizen?

Jim Beaux wrote:Why does it seem unimaginable to be driving down the street in your hometown; being pulled over for no reason; your family told to get out of the car, and then searched as a common criminal while you watch your wife and daughter being physically violated. It's happening everyday at the airports; and now 50 miles inland from the border. When will the checkpoint be at the end of your driveway?

Do our rights get more oblique the further away from the center of the country?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... tv7DU#t=0s

"Now" 50 miles from the border? These checkpoints, the one near Sarita at least, have existed for a very long time. At first it was temporary, no permanent facilities, and not operative most of the time. Then it became continuous and they added permanent facilities. In the last couple years they've added a plethora of cameras to monitor traffic in both directions. Honestly, I can't remember a time since I left the military and came back to Texas that the Sarita checkpoint hasn't been in operation. It's been there at least 10 years and possibly 20.

Personally, while I find being stopped for no reason within the borders of my own country to be outrageous, I don't think confronting these BP agents accomplishes anything worthwhile. These guys didn't decide to set up the checkpoint, they're just doing what they've been ordered to do. Many of these guys would be on our side if push comes to shove. They are not our enemies --the real enemies of the Constitution are their "leadership," like Big Sis and Obama. After all, these guys joined up to protect our border, not to harass gun owners, and it's not their fault the administration won't let them do their job for real.

Once, returning from Europe, I had a custom's guy ask me: "what is the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution?" Sadly, he told me I was the only American all day who had correctly answered the question. I ask myself now if the BP agent asking me if I'm a US citizen might just be another ally, and supporter of the 2nd Amendment. You never know.

VMI77 wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:Why does it seem unimaginable to be driving down the street in your hometown; being pulled over for no reason; your family told to get out of the car, and then searched as a common criminal while you watch your wife and daughter being physically violated. It's happening everyday at the airports; and now 50 miles inland from the border. When will the checkpoint be at the end of your driveway?

Do our rights get more oblique the further away from the center of the country?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... tv7DU#t=0s

"Now" 50 miles from the border? These checkpoints, the one near Sarita at least, have existed for a very long time. At first it was temporary, no permanent facilities, and not operative most of the time. Then it became continuous and they added permanent facilities. In the last couple years they've added a plethora of cameras to monitor traffic in both directions. Honestly, I can't remember a time since I left the military and came back to Texas that the Sarita checkpoint hasn't been in operation. It's been there at least 10 years and possibly 20.

Personally, while I find being stopped for no reason within the borders of my own country to be outrageous, I don't think confronting these BP agents accomplishes anything worthwhile. These guys didn't decide to set up the checkpoint, they're just doing what they've been ordered to do. Many of these guys would be on our side if push comes to shove. They are not our enemies --the real enemies of the Constitution are their "leadership," like Big Sis and Obama. After all, these guys joined up to protect our border, not to harass gun owners, and it's not their fault the administration won't let them do their job for real.

Once, returning from Europe, I had a custom's guy ask me: "what is the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution?" Sadly, he told me I was the only American all day who had correctly answered the question. I ask myself now if the BP agent asking me if I'm a US citizen might just be another ally, and supporter of the 2nd Amendment. You never know.

First: I find such dismissive attitudes to be dangerous.

Secondly: There was no confrontation. An American citizen respectfully asserted his constitutional rights while one of "the good guys" (Zavala) tried to intimidate and stare him down. "Just following orders" dont cut it (The Nazi's used the same excuse), as it was obvious that this BP guy took things personally. It was an affront to his self-assumed power.

The dynamics are simple, if we dont assert and defend our rights we lose them; and dont forget the fact that the federal government took Arizona and Texas to court to stop the states from checking ID's while reserving the seemingly exclusive right for it to do so.

Stay alert, as Big Brother never sleeps.

Jim Beaux wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Jim Beaux wrote:Why does it seem unimaginable to be driving down the street in your hometown; being pulled over for no reason; your family told to get out of the car, and then searched as a common criminal while you watch your wife and daughter being physically violated. It's happening everyday at the airports; and now 50 miles inland from the border. When will the checkpoint be at the end of your driveway?

Do our rights get more oblique the further away from the center of the country?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... tv7DU#t=0s

"Now" 50 miles from the border? These checkpoints, the one near Sarita at least, have existed for a very long time. At first it was temporary, no permanent facilities, and not operative most of the time. Then it became continuous and they added permanent facilities. In the last couple years they've added a plethora of cameras to monitor traffic in both directions. Honestly, I can't remember a time since I left the military and came back to Texas that the Sarita checkpoint hasn't been in operation. It's been there at least 10 years and possibly 20.

Personally, while I find being stopped for no reason within the borders of my own country to be outrageous, I don't think confronting these BP agents accomplishes anything worthwhile. These guys didn't decide to set up the checkpoint, they're just doing what they've been ordered to do. Many of these guys would be on our side if push comes to shove. They are not our enemies --the real enemies of the Constitution are their "leadership," like Big Sis and Obama. After all, these guys joined up to protect our border, not to harass gun owners, and it's not their fault the administration won't let them do their job for real.

Once, returning from Europe, I had a custom's guy ask me: "what is the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution?" Sadly, he told me I was the only American all day who had correctly answered the question. I ask myself now if the BP agent asking me if I'm a US citizen might just be another ally, and supporter of the 2nd Amendment. You never know.

First: I find such dismissive attitudes to be dangerous.

Secondly: There was no confrontation. An American citizen respectfully asserted his constitutional rights while one of "the good guys" (Zavala) tried to intimidate and stare him down. "Just following orders" dont cut it (The Nazi's used the same excuse), as it was obvious that this BP guy took things personally. It was an affront to his self-assumed power.

The dynamics are simple, if we dont assert and defend our rights we lose them; and dont forget the fact that the federal government took Arizona and Texas to court to stop the states from checking ID's while reserving the seemingly exclusive right for it to do so.

Stay alert, as Big Brother never sleeps.

First: I'm not really being dismissive --no doubt a lot of people doing this would have some effect, but that just isn't going to happen. The fact is, the majority of the people in this country love their servitude and have been conditioned to accept it for several decades now. The airport checkpoints prove this. A significant part of air travel is purely volitional; if a majority of Americans thought their rights were more important than their convenience there wouldn't be a TSA, and most of the airlines, if not all, would be bankrupt. People still go to sporting events and concerts and PAY to allow themselves to be searched. Personally, I don't care if the government is searching me or some private security guard, I'm not going to PAY to be searched, so I don't fly, or go to concerts and sporting events --or any other place where a search is required. So far, it hasn't made the least bit of difference because my small protest is drowned in the sea of money provided by all those people who don't mind being subjects instead of citizens.

Second: In the mind of the BP agent there was a confrontation and I think you can pretty much expect any LEO to bristle when his authority is challenged. I don't think it's reasonable to equate following orders to stop vehicles at a checkpoint and ask the occupants if they're American citizens --a system that the Supreme Court has approved, and is therefore legal in the minds of those tasked with enforcement-- with shooting children in the back of the head and herding families into gas chambers. I disagree with the SC, I think internal checkpoints are the hallmark of authoritarian States, but most Americans just don't care. Those of us who do are in a very small minority. All of us are going to have to draw our own lines in the sand in the coming years; if you choose to draw yours at arguing with a BP agent that has no say in setting policy so be it --to me that's like arguing with a cashier about a stupid store policy set my management. You may just be making it easier for the people who have to carry out orders to consider you an enemy --and by you I mean all of us who aren't part of the ruling class. And when one of us slaves rattles his chains in line at the airport like this, all the rest of the slaves rattle theirs too and shout for this repellant behavior to end; not at the TSA agents feeling crotches, but at the slave who dared to rattle his chains and challenge his masters, thus making life harder on the rest of the slaves.

I would suggest that if someone wants to draw their line in the sand near where this truck driver did it, he take take a different approach, and seek allies rather than make enemies. Try to engender a little sympathy. For instance: "hi, I know you guys are just doing your job, and I respect that, but doesn't it make you at least a little uneasy to be stopping Americans in their own country for no reason, and asking them questions? I am an American citizen by the way." You don't have much time for a chat at a stop like this, but an encounter like that will be harder to dismiss than one that puts the officer in a bad position.

I may annoy or anger people by saying this, but I had to say it.

I started watching that video... the truck driver is an idiot. The BP checkpoints are there for one reason, and one reason only - to catch illegal aliens. Yes, you see the dogs there, but court precedent holds that it is an -immigration- checkpoint, not a drug checkpoint, warrant-checking point, or any other reason. There IS no "papers please" there unless you aren't an American citizen. Pulling up, ignoring the one simple question - "Are you an American citizen" - and repeatedly saying "Am I free to go?" is sheer cussedness, and looking for a fight. This guy -wanted- a confrontation. He -wanted- to irritate the agent. He succeeded, but seemed disappointed that he could not get the agents to misbehave. I'd bet he would've been inordinately pleased to get bodily hauled out of his rig, pepper-sprayed, tased, and then given some "stick time," because then he could have shown everyone how evil the Border Patrol is, and played up his supposed victimhood. And then he makes the whole thing a classic example of Godwin's Law, and references the Nazis.

I am not defending the checkpoints, merely pointing out that they have been held to be Constitutional, within certain specific guidelines. If you don't like them, then have your legislators vote to get rid of them. But while you're at it, better have them vote for either completely open borders, or a completely sealed border. The checkpoints are a stopgap measure designed to catch some of the spill-through from our leaky border.

But until then, until the reason for the checkpoints is obviated and made null and void, don't try to pick fights with the agents. It is a waste of your time, and a waste of theirs. Anyone who comes through and pulls this garbage is not being "patriotic," they are being stupid. Make their jobs easier; pressure your congress-critters into fixing things so we don't need the checkpoints to catch the bleed-through from the border. Believe me, they'd like nothing better. They don't like 'em either.

It might surprise a lot of folks, but Border Patrol Agents, by and large, tend to be conservatives, Constitutionalists, and libertarians. The checkpoints have been held to be Constitutional with strict guidelines, and that question, "Are you an American citizen?" is the be-all and end-all of them. Without it, the Border Patrol checkpoints would NOT be Constitutional, and you would not be able to find the agents to staff them, at least not from the current employee base.

So my message to the videographer and all those who posted similar videos is this: Grow up. Learn what is and isn't actually held to be Constitutional. Learn what those checkpoints are actually there for. Learn that minor inconvenience to you does not make you a victim of civil rights violations, nor does it justify trying to pick a fight with the "pig" you're currently trying to provoke. Learn what fights are worth fighting, and who the real people to fight are. Grow up, get off your cross, use the wood to make a bridge, and get over yourself.

Apparently saying nothing but, "am I free to go?" is also constitutional, or at least legal. Otherwise they would have arrested him and given him a frizzy hairdo and some "stick time".

I have seen several of these videos including the ones where they pulled a preacher out of his car because the drug dog told them he had drugs. None were found, but 11 stitches and a pretrial hearing later, all charges were dismissed by the judge. Either the drug dog lied, the border patrol people searching his car were inept, or they wanted to show him who's boss, as he often used the "free to go?" line.

Sooooo... How many of the illegal aliens going through that checkpoint are stupid enough to admit that they aren't US citizens? No documents required? Just answer the question?

If Obama can pay for radio commercials IN MEXICO, advertising how to get American food-stamps, why not advertise "just say yes" at the checkpoint? (Or just keep repeating "Am I free to go")

JSThane wrote:I may annoy or anger people by saying this, but I had to say it.

I started watching that video... the truck driver is an idiot. The BP checkpoints are there for one reason, and one reason only - to catch illegal aliens. Yes, you see the dogs there, but court precedent holds that it is an -immigration- checkpoint, not a drug checkpoint, warrant-checking point, or any other reason. There IS no "papers please" there unless you aren't an American citizen. Pulling up, ignoring the one simple question - "Are you an American citizen" - and repeatedly saying "Am I free to go?" is sheer cussedness, and looking for a fight. This guy -wanted- a confrontation. He -wanted- to irritate the agent. He succeeded, but seemed disappointed that he could not get the agents to misbehave. I'd bet he would've been inordinately pleased to get bodily hauled out of his rig, pepper-sprayed, tased, and then given some "stick time," because then he could have shown everyone how evil the Border Patrol is, and played up his supposed victimhood. And then he makes the whole thing a classic example of Godwin's Law, and references the Nazis.

I am not defending the checkpoints, merely pointing out that they have been held to be Constitutional, within certain specific guidelines. If you don't like them, then have your legislators vote to get rid of them. But while you're at it, better have them vote for either completely open borders, or a completely sealed border. The checkpoints are a stopgap measure designed to catch some of the spill-through from our leaky border.

But until then, until the reason for the checkpoints is obviated and made null and void, don't try to pick fights with the agents. It is a waste of your time, and a waste of theirs. Anyone who comes through and pulls this garbage is not being "patriotic," they are being stupid. Make their jobs easier; pressure your congress-critters into fixing things so we don't need the checkpoints to catch the bleed-through from the border. Believe me, they'd like nothing better. They don't like 'em either.

It might surprise a lot of folks, but Border Patrol Agents, by and large, tend to be conservatives, Constitutionalists, and libertarians. The checkpoints have been held to be Constitutional with strict guidelines, and that question, "Are you an American citizen?" is the be-all and end-all of them. Without it, the Border Patrol checkpoints would NOT be Constitutional, and you would not be able to find the agents to staff them, at least not from the current employee base.

So my message to the videographer and all those who posted similar videos is this: Grow up. Learn what is and isn't actually held to be Constitutional. Learn what those checkpoints are actually there for. Learn that minor inconvenience to you does not make you a victim of civil rights violations, nor does it justify trying to pick a fight with the "pig" you're currently trying to provoke. Learn what fights are worth fighting, and who the real people to fight are. Grow up, get off your cross, use the wood to make a bridge, and get over yourself.

Wow...

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

For the record, I like this approach.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=BhmBtPegx5Y[/youtube]

And once again, someone pulls out the Nazi reference.

Look, folks, it's really quite simple. Don't like the checkpoints? Pressure your congress-critters to take action such that they're no longer necessary, and in fact do become pointless to the point of intolerance. I'm in favor of providing the equipment, manpower, and infrastructure to the Border Patrol, -on the border-, so that we don't have to wonder what vehicles are smuggling people on the highways. I live out here, on the border; you have to see the trash in the desert, read the news reports of human smuggling and slavery, even sex slavery of young children, and deal with the transient illegals breaking into your and your neighbors' property and stealing your stuff.

I don't like the checkpoints. I wish they weren't there. But the sad truth is, until we as a nation decide to actually fix our borders, the checkpoints are a fall-back, a stop-gap measure, in hopes of catching at least -some- of the people who make it past the Border Patrol at our incredibly porous southern border.'

And pbwalker? If you'd bothered to read instead of skim, you would have seen that I posted exactly this in my previous post, which you quoted in entirety, prior to pulling out the Nazi reference yet again. Way to prove my point.

This may generate bad feelings and ill-will, but I'm laying down a line here: If you're not willing to stand up to your congressmen, if you're not willing to pester your senators, if all you're going to do is annoy the agents at the checkpoint and make stupid videos for youtube, then you are doing less than nothing. You are hurting the very cause you support, and lending credence to those you decry, by making yourselves out to be radical, crackpot stooges, out for your fifteen minutes in the limelight, and possibly a self-serving tort lawsuit that could have easily been avoided. Comparing Border Patrol checkpoints to Nazi atrocities only further discredits you.

So here's the line. Either do something which will -mean something-, or stand down. Get off the "you are violating my civil rights" wooden horse, and actually try to fix the problem that -caused- the checkpoints to be set up. If you're not willing to do that, then sit down, and quit attaching your antics and rhetoric to those people who ARE trying to fix the problems; all you're doing is hurting them, damaging their credibility, and discrediting their words and actions.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

to each their own I guess...

JSThane wrote:I may annoy or anger people by saying this, but I had to say it.

I started watching that video... the truck driver is an idiot. The BP checkpoints are there for one reason, and one reason only - to catch illegal aliens. Yes, you see the dogs there, but court precedent holds that it is an -immigration- checkpoint, not a drug checkpoint, warrant-checking point, or any other reason. There IS no "papers please" there unless you aren't an American citizen. Pulling up, ignoring the one simple question - "Are you an American citizen" - and repeatedly saying "Am I free to go?" is sheer cussedness, and looking for a fight. This guy -wanted- a confrontation. He -wanted- to irritate the agent. He succeeded, but seemed disappointed that he could not get the agents to misbehave. I'd bet he would've been inordinately pleased to get bodily hauled out of his rig, pepper-sprayed, tased, and then given some "stick time," because then he could have shown everyone how evil the Border Patrol is, and played up his supposed victimhood. And then he makes the whole thing a classic example of Godwin's Law, and references the Nazis.

I am not defending the checkpoints, merely pointing out that they have been held to be Constitutional, within certain specific guidelines. If you don't like them, then have your legislators vote to get rid of them. But while you're at it, better have them vote for either completely open borders, or a completely sealed border. The checkpoints are a stopgap measure designed to catch some of the spill-through from our leaky border.

But until then, until the reason for the checkpoints is obviated and made null and void, don't try to pick fights with the agents. It is a waste of your time, and a waste of theirs. Anyone who comes through and pulls this garbage is not being "patriotic," they are being stupid. Make their jobs easier; pressure your congress-critters into fixing things so we don't need the checkpoints to catch the bleed-through from the border. Believe me, they'd like nothing better. They don't like 'em either.

It might surprise a lot of folks, but Border Patrol Agents, by and large, tend to be conservatives, Constitutionalists, and libertarians. The checkpoints have been held to be Constitutional with strict guidelines, and that question, "Are you an American citizen?" is the be-all and end-all of them. Without it, the Border Patrol checkpoints would NOT be Constitutional, and you would not be able to find the agents to staff them, at least not from the current employee base.

So my message to the videographer and all those who posted similar videos is this: Grow up. Learn what is and isn't actually held to be Constitutional. Learn what those checkpoints are actually there for. Learn that minor inconvenience to you does not make you a victim of civil rights violations, nor does it justify trying to pick a fight with the "pig" you're currently trying to provoke. Learn what fights are worth fighting, and who the real people to fight are. Grow up, get off your cross, use the wood to make a bridge, and get over yourself.

I guess I might have a dismissive attitude because I agree with most all you had to say.

Your not giving up any of your "rights" by answering a simple question. They aren't asking you to kiss them.

While I don't like having to stop at the checkpoints.......it would make me madder to be behind a..........like this and wasting more of my time.