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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... /?page=all

The issue is this: whether or not a veteran who has been deemed mentally incompetent should have that determination from the VA, or have his/her case adjudicated by a court just like any other citizen. Senator Coburn tried to get an amendment added to the latest defense spending bill that would require such to be adjudicated in the courts. His argument is that if you're going to take away someone's constitutionally protected 2nd Amendment right, he or she should have to have the right to defend themselves in court. As it currently stands, the VA can arbitrarily make that decision, which means that a VA mental health "professional" has the power to strip a veteran of their 2nd Amendment rights without any kind of due process whatsoever.

Senate Democrats have threatened to vigorously pursue filibuster "reform" if Republicans insist on pushing for this Amendment.

Why? Because the more people they can disenfranchise from their 2nd Amendment rights without having to undergo the scrutiny of due process, the happier they are. Democrats hate freedom.....unless it concerns sex.

The Annoyed Man wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... /?page=all

The issue is this: whether or not a veteran who has been deemed mentally incompetent should have that determination from the VA, or have his/her case adjudicated by a court just like any other citizen. Senator Coburn tried to get an amendment added to the latest defense spending bill that would require such to be adjudicated in the courts. His argument is that if you're going to take away someone's constitutionally protected 2nd Amendment right, he or she should have to have the right to defend themselves in court. As it currently stands, the VA can arbitrarily make that decision, which means that a VA mental health "professional" has the power to strip a veteran of their 2nd Amendment rights without any kind of due process whatsoever.

Senate Democrats have threatened to vigorously pursue filibuster "reform" if Republicans insist on pushing for this Amendment.

Why? Because the more people they can disenfranchise from their 2nd Amendment rights without having to undergo the scrutiny of due process, the happier they are. Democrats hate freedom.....unless it concerns sex and weed.

There's a fix.

Oldgringo wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... /?page=all

The issue is this: whether or not a veteran who has been deemed mentally incompetent should have that determination from the VA, or have his/her case adjudicated by a court just like any other citizen. Senator Coburn tried to get an amendment added to the latest defense spending bill that would require such to be adjudicated in the courts. His argument is that if you're going to take away someone's constitutionally protected 2nd Amendment right, he or she should have to have the right to defend themselves in court. As it currently stands, the VA can arbitrarily make that decision, which means that a VA mental health "professional" has the power to strip a veteran of their 2nd Amendment rights without any kind of due process whatsoever.

Senate Democrats have threatened to vigorously pursue filibuster "reform" if Republicans insist on pushing for this Amendment.

Why? Because the more people they can disenfranchise from their 2nd Amendment rights without having to undergo the scrutiny of due process, the happier they are. Democrats hate freedom.....unless it concerns sex and weed.

There's a fix.

OK, you got me.

It's a win-win for them.

Vets who don't want to comply will be denied benefits they earned, often times with blood.

Vets that voluntarily comply serve to justify taking similar measures with other groups of citizens.

Either way, their purpose is served, and they are one step closer to disarming all American citizens outside of those that serve the regime.

CRY HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR, then put them back in the cage when you no longer want or need them to do your bidding, please relinquish your rights at the door to the entrance processing station and they will not be returned at any time in the future. DEMS unite to control the rough men!!!

will the over flow of stuff fall upon the rest of the people, possibly. I see this as more control over those who have served in the military, another way to take what we have paid for in blood sweat and tears especially since they are talking about cutting benefits if we don't comply with the unconstitutional requirements of the plan. They also want the control to make a determination of mental stability without due process and recourse of the courts, nothing new there the dems have always wanted to control the military(all branches) and its all about control and the ability of the dems to dictate what will or will not be allowed. hmmm just control

mentally incompetent
hmm as a 100% disabled veteran with some issues
I know some of my fellow comrades some should NEVER have a firearm, or be allowed to have a dog or drink beer
but that is a SMALL SMALL percentage of us that are damaged goods

but if the va can make this rule without due process its clearly a no no
funny thing is social security states they don't align them selves with the VA or its rating system in the cases of filing for disability in conjunction with 100% disabled veterans
soooo
how can any other gov agency pick and choose which ratings it chooses to agree with

powerboatr wrote:mentally incompetent
hmm as a 100% disabled veteran with some issues
I know some of my fellow comrades some should NEVER have a firearm, or be allowed to have a dog or drink beer
but that is a SMALL SMALL percentage of us that are damaged goods

but if the va can make this rule without due process its clearly a no no
funny thing is social security states they don't align them selves with the VA or its rating system in the cases of filing for disability in conjunction with 100% disabled veterans
soooo
how can any other gov agency pick and choose which ratings it chooses to agree with

How can any gov agency in a Constitutional Republic arbitrarily choose to strip an honorable citizen who has given up pain and suffering to his nation of his 2nd Amendment rights without due process? Is it in the VA Charter that when a veteran goes to them for help, that veteran surrenders their constitutional rights at the door?

I don't think so. I would love to be the lawyer that gets to take this one before SCOTUS.

By the way, I do not have a problem with disarming a genuinely mentally impaired individual as a matter of public safety. But I DON'T want it done without that person getting their day in court to demonstrate to an impartial judge that they are not incompetent. Furthermore, I can think of at least one friend of mine, who reads this board, who gave it all to his country and is now disabled from PTSD after two tours in Iraq. He also competes 3 times a month in IDPA and is a "range buddy" of mine whom I trust implicitly with and around firearms.....including in my own home. I would be terminally hacked off if some pencil-neck at the VA arbitrarily decided to strip him of his rights. It's bad enough when some of the VA facilities deliver substandard care, but it is inexcusable when they show a malicious disregard for the Constitution.

I would like one of the Democrat members of this board explain to me why it is OK for Democrats in Congress to vote against Coburn's amendment to the defense spending bill.

The Annoyed Man wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... /?page=all

The issue is this: whether or not a veteran who has been deemed mentally incompetent should have that determination from the VA, or have his/her case adjudicated by a court just like any other citizen. Senator Coburn tried to get an amendment added to the latest defense spending bill that would require such to be adjudicated in the courts. His argument is that if you're going to take away someone's constitutionally protected 2nd Amendment right, he or she should have to have the right to defend themselves in court. As it currently stands, the VA can arbitrarily make that decision, which means that a VA mental health "professional" has the power to strip a veteran of their 2nd Amendment rights without any kind of due process whatsoever.

Senate Democrats have threatened to vigorously pursue filibuster "reform" if Republicans insist on pushing for this Amendment.

Why? Because the more people they can disenfranchise from their 2nd Amendment rights without having to undergo the scrutiny of due process, the happier they are. Democrats hate freedom.....unless it concerns sex.

I don't think that's the real reason, or a least not the whole reason; I think the reason is much more nefarious than that. It's a setup to establish precedent so that ANYONE assessed by some supposed "mental health professional" can be denied 2nd Amendment rights. At some future time they'll pass some law claiming that if our Veterans can be disenfranchised this way, men and women who have sacrificed for their country, then there is no reason for civilians to have greater protection.

VMI77 wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... /?page=all

The issue is this: whether or not a veteran who has been deemed mentally incompetent should have that determination from the VA, or have his/her case adjudicated by a court just like any other citizen. Senator Coburn tried to get an amendment added to the latest defense spending bill that would require such to be adjudicated in the courts. His argument is that if you're going to take away someone's constitutionally protected 2nd Amendment right, he or she should have to have the right to defend themselves in court. As it currently stands, the VA can arbitrarily make that decision, which means that a VA mental health "professional" has the power to strip a veteran of their 2nd Amendment rights without any kind of due process whatsoever.

Senate Democrats have threatened to vigorously pursue filibuster "reform" if Republicans insist on pushing for this Amendment.

Why? Because the more people they can disenfranchise from their 2nd Amendment rights without having to undergo the scrutiny of due process, the happier they are. Democrats hate freedom.....unless it concerns sex.

I don't think that's the real reason, or a least not the whole reason; I think the reason is much more nefarious than that. It's a setup to establish precedent so that ANYONE assessed by some supposed "mental health professional" can be denied 2nd Amendment rights. At some future time they'll pass some law claiming that if our Veterans can be disenfranchised this way, men and women who have sacrificed for their country, then there is no reason for civilians to have greater protection.

I actually considered that possibility, but I was far more hacked off in the immediate at the idea of it happening to our veterans.

So much for due process.

"For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,"

From Kipling's "Tommy"

The Annoyed Man wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... /?page=all

The issue is this: whether or not a veteran who has been deemed mentally incompetent should have that determination from the VA, or have his/her case adjudicated by a court just like any other citizen. Senator Coburn tried to get an amendment added to the latest defense spending bill that would require such to be adjudicated in the courts. His argument is that if you're going to take away someone's constitutionally protected 2nd Amendment right, he or she should have to have the right to defend themselves in court. As it currently stands, the VA can arbitrarily make that decision, which means that a VA mental health "professional" has the power to strip a veteran of their 2nd Amendment rights without any kind of due process whatsoever.

Senate Democrats have threatened to vigorously pursue filibuster "reform" if Republicans insist on pushing for this Amendment.

Why? Because the more people they can disenfranchise from their 2nd Amendment rights without having to undergo the scrutiny of due process, the happier they are. Democrats hate freedom.....unless it concerns sex.

I don't think that's the real reason, or a least not the whole reason; I think the reason is much more nefarious than that. It's a setup to establish precedent so that ANYONE assessed by some supposed "mental health professional" can be denied 2nd Amendment rights. At some future time they'll pass some law claiming that if our Veterans can be disenfranchised this way, men and women who have sacrificed for their country, then there is no reason for civilians to have greater protection.

I actually considered that possibility, but I was far more hacked off in the immediate at the idea of it happening to our veterans.

There is no doubt in my mind that they want a "no buy" list to go with the "no fly" list. And the no fly list might be where they start, adding veterans and other groups as fast as they can get away with it.