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Shooter - the movie
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:28 pm
by O6nop
I was fortunate enough to get free tickets to the sneak preview of The Shooter with Mark Wahlburg.
I'm not up on high power sniper riflery, but want to learn, so I didn't catch all of the nuances of the technical discussions. At one point, they were talking about what it would take to hit a target a mile away. Wahlburg's character went into a long monologue about how since it would take 6 seconds for a bullet to get to its target, many things would be a factor as it makes its way, such as temperature, humidity,wind, even the corealis effect or rotation of the earth. I don't remember gravity being mntioned but I suppose that's a given.
All that was well and fine, but I find it hard to believe it takes a bullet 6 seconds to get to a target. I think he was referencing a .50 cal sniper round. So at about 900 m/s velocity (if that's correct) and a mile is about 1600 meters, it would take less that 2 seconds. Maybe I mis-heard the 6 second remark.
Anybody enlighten me on this? The movie officially releases March 23 so I look forward to any other movie-goers commenting on this movie.
My review: Entertaining, a mix between authentic gun application and typical Hollywood scripting.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:36 pm
by GlockenHammer
Muzzle velocity might be 900 m/s, but it will continually slow down on the way to the target. I don't have numerical estimates to do the calculations.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:41 pm
by Paladin
Some bullets are faster than others. You've got subsonic rounds like the .45ACP clocking less than 1000fps, and supersonic rounds like the 5.56mm and .50 BMG clocking around 3000fps.
With a mile being 5280ft, even a subsonic .45 ACP would get there in around 6 seconds.
A .50 BMG would be long gone.
I'm not an uber-rifle marksman, but I've never heard of the Coriolis effect being important to riflery. Apparently it can be important to very long range artillery shells:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect#Ballistics
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:59 pm
by 9mmGuy
hey where did the funny pic go? o well
I have heard true stories of one of the armed forces actually hitting a target at over a mile with a Barrett .50. the story goes that the person that was hit prob did not even hear the shot. and I don’t know how fast sound moves but it's like 1100fps or something.
Anyway i cant wait for that movie to come out. it looks pretty cool!
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:00 pm
by txinvestigator
1 mile=5280 feet. 6 seconds for a mile is under 800 Feet per second. That seems awfully slow for a bullet that can actually make that distance.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:07 pm
by Paladin
I can vouch for the accuracy of this, but this site does suggest the Coriolis effect can have significant effects at 2,000 yards:
http://www.frfrogspad.com/miscellj.htm#Coriolis
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:09 pm
by jimlongley
Given a 3000fps mv, the time to target would be just over 2 seconds.
I haven't seen the movie, but I have seen the trailers and an interview where Wahlburg and Hunter claiming that they went to sniper school to add accuracy. They blew it!
First of all, I would sure like to get me one of them recoil free rifles.
Second of all, they are showing something better then a tenth of a minute of angle accuracy at that range, which only exists in benchrest chunk guns.
I might see it if I can find it on a pirated DVD, otherwise you can't even tempt me.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:10 pm
by jbirds1210
txinvestigator wrote:1 mile=5280 feet. 6 seconds for a mile is under 800 Feet per second. That seems awfully slow for a bullet that can actually make that distance.
TXI....I agree it seems slow, BUT if it can be done......Marky Mark of the Funky Bunch would be the one to pull it off
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:11 pm
by jimlongley
The fire control computers for the five inch guns on my ship had coriolis calculations built in, according to the bearing of the shot.
Re: Shooter - the movie
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:19 pm
by nitrogen
I ran some quick and dirty ballistics calculations, assuming a 647 grain boattail .50 travelling 3044 fps. (i know, I know!)
Out to 1000 yards, your ToF is about 1.3 seconds, so at about a mile, he's not even half right.
MAYBE if he was using a 800 grain hollowpoint, traveling at an initial velocity of 2800 fps, he'd be close to 3 seconds at a mile.
Of course, all this is assuming no wind.
Now if he was shooting this 800 grain bullet at an ambient tempeture of -50, you'd be a bit closer to 4 seconds.
Unless he was shooting something like .308, I can't see it taking 6 seconds at all. (A .308 would take about 4 seconds at a mile, assuming a 150 grain bullet at 2820 fps) At that range, assuming it even hit, I doubt it'd even make you say "OW!"
and of course, all this is assuming I did my math right.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:34 pm
by Paladin
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:58 pm
by kauboy
From Wikipedia:
"The current record for the longest-range confirmed sniper kill is 2,430 meters (7,972 feet or 1.51 miles), accomplished by Corporal Rob Furlong of the Canadian Forces. Born in Newfoundland, Furlong had taught himself to fire a sniper rifle ambidextrously. In 2003 he served in the 3rd Battalion of the PPCLI, as part of Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shahikot Valley. His sniper team included MCpl. Graham Ragsdale (Team Commander), MCpl. Tim McMeekin, MCpl. Arron Perry, Cpl. Dennis Eason. Furlong later left the forces to pursue a career as a police officer. A three-man al-Qaeda weapons team was moving into a mountainside position when Furlong shot and killed one carrying an RPK machine gun from an accurately measured distance of 2,430 metres (1.51 Miles). His first shot missed entirely, and his second shot had hit the knapsack on the militant's back. The third struck the target's torso. The weapon used was a .50-caliber McMillan Brothers TAC-50 rifle. The bullet's time of flight was around four seconds, and it dropped some 150 feet."
Sorry Marky Mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:18 pm
by gigag04
I have on minor contribution - that muzzle velocity is not a constant. The moment the round leaves the barrel it begins to negatively accelerate, or "decelerate" due to friction with air. Barometric pressure would affect this as it would have an effect on the density of the air. Air in mountains is less dense, and thus the round retains more of its initial velocity at higher elevations.
That said, 6s seems long, but after all, it is a movie. I too am interested in seeing it.
-nick
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 4:19 pm
by 9mmGuy
kauboy wrote:From Wikipedia:
"The current record for the longest-range confirmed sniper kill is 2,430 meters (7,972 feet or 1.51 miles), accomplished by Corporal Rob Furlong of the Canadian Forces. Born in Newfoundland, Furlong had taught himself to fire a sniper rifle ambidextrously. In 2003 he served in the 3rd Battalion of the PPCLI, as part of Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan's Shahikot Valley. His sniper team included MCpl. Graham Ragsdale (Team Commander), MCpl. Tim McMeekin, MCpl. Arron Perry, Cpl. Dennis Eason. Furlong later left the forces to pursue a career as a police officer. A three-man al-Qaeda weapons team was moving into a mountainside position when Furlong shot and killed one carrying an RPK machine gun from an accurately measured distance of 2,430 metres (1.51 Miles). His first shot missed entirely, and his second shot had hit the knapsack on the militant's back. The third struck the target's torso. The weapon used was a .50-caliber McMillan Brothers TAC-50 rifle. The bullet's time of flight was around four seconds, and it dropped some 150 feet."
Sorry Marky Mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sniper
That is the story I was talking about. Supposedly the third shot split the man in half. anyway, it only took four sec and thats more than a mile, dang thats far. That must of been a heck of a scope.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:14 pm
by jrosto
Mark Wahlburg is a convicted felon who was sentenced to two years, suspended. He is breaking the law in this movie as the firearms he is holding are actual firearms.
18 USC Chapter 44, Sec. 922, "Unlawful Acts":
It shall be unlawful for any person...who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year; to...possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
I totally disagree with this law, but it is the law and many people are in jail right now for unlawful possession of a firearm by a felon.
Wahlburg is also anti gun, imagine that
Just an interesting aside.