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multiple handguns within 7 days?
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:12 am
by ccoker
what's the deal with that?
I know if you purchase more than one handgun within 7 days of each other they must fill out a seperate form.
what exactly is that about ?
Re: multiple handguns within 7 days?
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:18 am
by txinvestigator
ccoker wrote:what's the deal with that?
I know if you purchase more than one handgun within 7 days of each other they must fill out a seperate form.
what exactly is that about ?
ATF rules.
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:23 am
by seamusTX
Welcome to the forum.
Does this answer your question?
Can one NICS check cover two or more separate firearms transactions?
No. An FFL must initiate separate NICS checks for separate transactions. However, an individual may purchase several firearms in one transaction.
Example: A purchaser completes an ATF Form 4473 for a single firearm on February 15. The FFL receives a “proceed� from NICS that day. The FFL signs the form, and the firearm is transferred. On February 20, the purchaser returns to the FFL’s premises and wishes to purchase a second firearm. The purchase of the second firearm is a separate transaction. Therefore, a new NICS check must be initiated by the FFL.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#p47
- Jim
Re: multiple handguns within 7 days?
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:46 am
by Wildscar
ccoker wrote:what's the deal with that?
I know if you purchase more than one handgun within 7 days of each other they must fill out a seperate form.
what exactly is that about ?
Its possible for a person to buy a gun on Monday, Come home and find people breaking his trust in them. He shoot one but the other get away some how. Neighbors call LEO's and they show up and arrest him. He goes to jail and his lawyer is able to post his bond and he is released in a couple days pending court date. Said individual is still angry at the other person that broke his trust and finds the other one. If he didn't have to fill out another 4473 on Thursday for a new handgun then he could basically walk in and buy another one with no hassle. See how that would be a problem
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:54 am
by O6nop
So where does the "7 days" play into it? Sounds like you have to fill out a separate form whether it's 7 minutes or 7 weeks.
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:06 pm
by seamusTX
I had time to take another look and found this:
As a licensed dealer, must I advise ATF if I sell more than one handgun to an individual?
If you sell or dispose of more than one handgun to any non-licensee during a period of 5 consecutive business days, the sale must be reported on ATF Form 3310.4, ... and another copy must be forwarded to the State police or local law enforcement agency where the sale occurred....
A business day for purposes of reporting multiple sales of pistols or revolvers is a day that a licensee conducts business pursuant to the license
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#f5
- Jim
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:13 pm
by txinvestigator
There is a seperate form called Report of Multiple Sale that FFLs must fill out when a person buys more than 1 handgun in a 5 day period. This is in addition to the seperate 4473s.
§ 478.126a Reporting multiple sales or
other disposition of pistols and revolvers.
Each licensee shall prepare a report
of multiple sales or other disposition
whenever the licensee sells or otherwise
disposes of, at one time or during
any five consecutive business days, two
or more pistols, or revolvers, or any
combination of pistols and revolvers
totaling two or more, to an unlicensed
person
Example. 1. A licensee sells a pistol and revolver
in a single transaction to an unlicensed
person. This is a multiple sale and
must be reported not later than the close of
business on the date of the transaction.
Example. 2. A licensee sells a pistol on Monday
and sells a revolver on the following Friday
to the same unlicensed person. This is a
multiple sale and must be reported not later
than the close of business on Friday. If the
licensee sells the same unlicensed person another
pistol or revolver on the following
Monday, this would constitute an additional
multiple sale and must also be reported.
(F18) How many copies of the ATF Form 3310.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers, must be completed and what becomes of each copy? [Back]
ATF Form 3310.4 must be completed in triplicate (3 copies). The original is sent to ATF’s National Tracing Center by FAX at 1-877-283-0288 or by mail to Box 1061, Falling Waters, West Virginia 25419-1061. A copy is to be sent to the designated State police or the local law enforcement agency in the jurisdiction where the sale took place. The remaining copy is to be retained in the records of the dealer and held for not less than 5 years.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#f18
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:24 pm
by ccoker
Ok..
so, I understand it's an ATF rule
I guess I don't understand the logic behind it (shocker!)
I was told by a dealer once that it's a "red flag" and to be avoided
whatever that means...
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:31 pm
by txinvestigator
It doesn't "red flag" anything. I suspect the dealer just does not want to have to do the extra paperwork.
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:38 pm
by pbandjelly
The red flag is for the "man" that sits behind a computer, controlling the smallest details of everyday life by mere thought.
This "man" is of course the one and same that is always watching, knows where you live, and could possibly extinguish your identity....
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:53 pm
by seamusTX
ccoker wrote:I guess I don't understand the logic behind it (shocker!)
I was told by a dealer once that it's a "red flag" and to be avoided
whatever that means...
The point of the requirement is to try to identify straw buyers who buy handguns legally and then resell them to criminals. It rarely works for that purpose.
Because the document is sent to the state or local police, some people view it as
de facto registration. I don't know what happens to the information in Texas.
- Jim
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:07 pm
by O6nop
What about at a retail store, like Cabelas or Academy, are they supposed to remember every person that comes in that week? What if it's a different salesman. There must be something in place to tell the seller that this person has been in previously in the last 5 working days.
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:12 pm
by seamusTX
O6nop wrote:There must be something in place to tell the seller that this person has been in previously in the last 5 working days.
All the form 4473s are on file. They can look back and see if that person bought within the last five days.
- Jim
Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:13 pm
by txinvestigator
O6nop wrote:What about at a retail store, like Cabelas or Academy, are they supposed to remember every person that comes in that week? What if it's a different salesman. There must be something in place to tell the seller that this person has been in previously in the last 5 working days.
The customer does not have to do anything with the form. It is part of the bookkeeping requirement of the FFL.
In addition to the 4473 there is a log that has to be kept by the FFL. It makes cross-referencing easier.
When I was over at the range, we never had to worry about it. The bookkeeper would enter the data in our computer system (GunBooks) and it would tell her if the same person had purchased within 5 days.
