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Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:23 pm
by JALLEN
IBD
April 17, 2013
Overreach: The gun control bill lets doctors put your name in the national criminal background check system without telling you. Can the government say you're crazy and take your guns? It's already happening.
The road to deeper gun control seems like another road paved with good intentions. Since many recent mass shootings have involved shooters with varying degrees of mental impairment, the desire to keep guns out of the genuinely mentally ill seems to be a worthy goal.
Yet it is being exploited with definitions so vague and undefined, and with controls so lax, as to become not a means of ensuring public safety but to fulfill an ideological agenda that sacrifices a fundamental liberty in the name of securing a marginal degree of safety.
The Toomey-Manchin proposal contains a provision that lets a doctor add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.
Read More At Investor's Business Daily:
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorial ... z2QggHZT6O" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:04 am
by TexasGal
There should be no way a record of any kind is entered into a database this important without some kind of checks and balances. Period. This whole thing is like anything the government does, it creates far more problems than it fixes. I can see the databases of mental hospitals being entered if patients have indicated they are a risk to the public but allowing any general physician to have the means by him or herself to enter something without review that takes a person's gun rights away is just plain wrong and WILL be used against innocent people. You didn't pay your bill? Your doctor committed malpractice and you are suing? He thinks you are a danger simply because you are one of those right wingers?
Re: Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:59 am
by XinTX
Now looking like they're having trouble rounding up votes. Though I do believe this is just a bit of kabuki theater.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... nd-checks/
Re: Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:17 am
by RoyGBiv
Actually, Toomey-Manchin appears to do a fair job of protecting Veterans from being summarily declared incompetent (without adjudication) and outlines a fairly clear schedule for appeals. Unfortunately for non-Veterans, the section of Toomey-Manchin that establishes the appeals process does it as part of Veterans benefits (Title 38) and leaves non-Veterans out in the cold.
If you are a non-Veteran and your doctor put you on the no-guns list.... Tough luck, apparently.
SEC. 115. ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS FOR OUR VETERANS.
(a) In General.--Chapter 55 of title 38, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:``§5511. Conditions for treatment of certain persons as adjudicated mentally incompetent for certain purposes
``(a) In General.--In any case arising out of the administration by the Secretary of laws and benefits under this title, a person who is determined by the Secretary to be mentally incompetent shall not be considered adjudicated pursuant to subsection (d)(4) or (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18 until--
Re: Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:33 am
by TexasGal
More evidence its a flypaper law.
Re: Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:58 am
by XinTX
Well, now it looks like NRA "A Rated" Reid is supporting an AWB.
http://ralstonreports.com/blog/reid-bac ... W63XqKG3ng
Re: Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:05 am
by powerboatr
what happened to being able to face or know your accuser? wouldn't this fit? if a doc adds your name to some "stalag" list?
I ask how many in congress would be put on the list?
i could see a lawsuit against docs by their patients filling the courtrooms, oh this nuts indeed
Re: Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:30 am
by VMI77
RoyGBiv wrote:Actually, Toomey-Manchin appears to do a fair job of protecting Veterans from being summarily declared incompetent (without adjudication) and outlines a fairly clear schedule for appeals. Unfortunately for non-Veterans, the section of Toomey-Manchin that establishes the appeals process does it as part of Veterans benefits (Title 38) and leaves non-Veterans out in the cold.
If you are a non-Veteran and your doctor put you on the no-guns list.... Tough luck, apparently.
SEC. 115. ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS FOR OUR VETERANS.
(a) In General.--Chapter 55 of title 38, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:``§5511. Conditions for treatment of certain persons as adjudicated mentally incompetent for certain purposes
``(a) In General.--In any case arising out of the administration by the Secretary of laws and benefits under this title, a person who is determined by the Secretary to be mentally incompetent shall not be considered adjudicated pursuant to subsection (d)(4) or (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18 until--
I don't consider it protection for veterans at all. #1, an administrative appeal is next to worthless because 99% of the time it will result in nothing more than a determination that the denial was made in accordance with policy. #2, the adjudication isn't free....if the government had to pick up your legal fees when the court ruled in your favor, it would not only be real protection, but might influence the administrative decisions as well. As it is, a veteran will have to have and spend at least $30,000 to regain a right he never should have been denied in the first place. The idea that I can be stripped of a right by some bureaucrat and then I have to spend my life savings to get it back is not in any way a valid "protection" of my rights.
Re: Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:31 am
by OldGrumpy
That is why I support Lindsey Graham's proposal which would only allow someone to be flagged on mental grounds through the court, and appropriate appeals, process. There are some individuals who should be denied access to weapons on mental grounds, but the use of that process should be closely guarded, adequately supervised, and contain appropriate appeal processes.
Re: Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:41 am
by VMI77
Wow, you just raised my BP with that link. Not only is Reid's speech full of lies, I think it contains every liberal trope about gun control I've ever read, including the shameful sophistry and lie of "if it saves only one life." But most despicable is perhaps the line that people should be as well protected as birds by magazine size limits. This speech shows Reid to be a loathsome and contemptuous liar.
Re: Toomey-Manchin Lets Doctors Block Your Gun Rights
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:37 am
by XinTX
VMI77 wrote:
Wow, you just raised my BP with that link. Not only is Reid's speech full of lies, I think it contains every liberal trope about gun control I've ever read, including the shameful sophistry and lie of "if it saves only one life." But most despicable is perhaps the line that people should be as well protected as birds by magazine size limits. This speech shows Reid to be a loathsome and contemptuous liar.
Well, at least one more Senator has come out in opposition to Manchin-Toomey-Schumer.
http://www.heitkamp.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=341425
Though it still puzzles me how Reid maintains an A rating.