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This is a long read so please excuse my rant. I am very thankful for the 10 YOD rule right now.

What a mess. I purchased a new Ultra CDP II a few months ago. While taking a class at APG in Greenville I encountered several problems with my SA EMP 9mm. Now it could not have happened in a better setting as I learned to overcome just about every handgun malfunction known to man during one-on one instruction (I highly recommend APG BTW http://www.apgtraining.com). The good thing is when every few rounds produce a jam, double feed, or light strike you get pretty good at handling it under stress. It was so bad that it became almost a joke between the two instructors and myself.

After the class I decided to back to the range and practice my newly learned techniques but this time with my Kimber. Let just say that I am glad that I had my SIG with me as well. My Kimber jammed, and double fed as well. Now let me explain that a lot these problems would not manifest themselves during normal target shooting at the range. But during rapid fire drills more akin to a real world situation they were very troublesome.

So the next day I called both manufacturers and to my delight Springfield was awesome to deal with, they even offered to reimburse me for shipping ($65) which I never would have thought to ask about. As for Kimber their policy is not to pay for shipping but they told me to include a request for reimbursement in my letter and they would send me a pair of extra mags. I don't use Kimber mags because of the metal followers so this didn't thrill me. When I asked about other options and explained that I only use Wilson mags he accused me of using a full size mag (8rds) and said that it had probably damaged my ejector???

Well, I sent both guns off on the same day and received a call from a friendly gentleman in the Kimber custom shop a few days later, he assured me that they would check everything and fire no less than 150 rds through it to verify that it was in good working order before returning the gun to me. I asked him about the magazines and told him that I preferred the WC instead. I told him that I was considering having a magwell installed and he offered me a discount and free installation... not bad.

Now let me explain that the UPS and FEDEX guys that deliver to my neighborhood have a very bad habit of leaving anything that requires a signature at the front door, no matter what it is. They even try to cover it with my doormat no matter how big the box is...LOL, it can be pretty humorous on occasion. That being said I made specific arrangements to have the return shipments sent to the FEDEX hub for me to pick up.

I last spoke to the Kimber rep on Friday of last week and he talked me out of the magwell but I opted for metal mainspring housing from S&A to be installed at no charge. He told me that the pistol would ship Monday or Tuesday. When I didn't have a door tag yesterday I decided that I would call Kimber this morning to get the tracking number so that I could head to the FEDEX hub and then on to the range.

Well the guy that I had been working with was test-firing some weapons but his co-worker was happy to help me and he informed me that they shipped the pistol via UPS??????????

He went on to explain that FEDEX only drops off and will not pick up from them. Again??? It's funny that they never mentioned this during our detailed conversation prior to me even shipping the gun. I even included a completed return shipping label to eliminate any errors. Well to say the least I was very frustrated and I called UPS to find out what I could do. I was informed that the package was in transit and would arrive by 7:30pm. Great!! When I mentioned that I was now a hostage in my home for the next several hours (this around 1pm) she asked me if I had any neighbors that could sign for the package... Wouldn't that have been fun for everyone?

At 6:30 UPS arrived and I met him at the door. After signing I immediately went to the table to open the box. I read the description of the work performed and removed the pistol form the plastic bag. Guess what... I sent them a meticulously clean pistol and they returned it filthy. It gets better. I wiped off the excess oil and racked the slide a few times. Everything felt fine. I decided to disassemble the pistol to view their handiwork (they claimed to have polished and throated the barrel chamber and feed ramp along with replacing the extractor). Much to my dismay (yes I said dismay, it's my rant!)the slide would not come off of the frame. After trying to figure it out for about 30 mins I decided to head up to the BT. They were just as baffled as I. When I got home I removed the grips and inspected the gun again after squirting some CLP liberally inside the slide and applying a little more pressure (OK a lot more, by hand of course) I was able to get the slide to come off the frame. After a light cleaning I attempted to re-assemble the pistol only to discover that the slide would not go back on either. I had inspected it for burrs and obstructions without finding anything. I then discovered that a small pin which is activated by the grip safety and sits next to the trigger safety pin (I can't find the name even with the IPB) is protruding to far to allow the slide to go on or off. There is also a flat spot on the rear corner of the frame where it is notched for the slide. It appears as if it was dropped.

I am not sure how they could let it leave the factory this way. Sure they test fired it, but had they broken it down for cleaning they would have found the problem and I wouldn't have to deal with the headache. Needless to say I will be on the phone with the "Custom Shop" in the morning.


BTW I spoke to SA this morning and they are replacing the slide on my EMP due to a defect. I should have it back in about 2 weeks. They are welcome to take their time as long as they are more thorough than Kimber.

If you made it this far you have my sincere apology. Typing my little rant sure made me feel better. We'll see tomorrow after I speak to Kimber.

When I was at frontsight, a good friend of mine, part of the group that went with us, brought a Kimber Pro, that everyone oogled over, until she started shooting. We called her FTF after that, her trip was RUINED by this gun. The instructors had problems with it too.

A few years ago I had a Kimber that went back to the factory 3 times and still would not run. Traded on a S&W 1911sc (now my daily carry). I swore I would never own another Kimber.

After reading from a few here how Kimbers had gotten better, I had been thinking of getting another one, until I read this.

I now have 4-1911's and they all run great. Not a Kimber in the bunch.

ScubaSigGuy wrote: . . . I then discovered that a small pin which is activated by the grip safety and sits next to the trigger safety pin (I can't find the name even with the IPB) is protruding to far to allow the slide to go on or off . . .

Sounds like the new "safety" that Kimber is including on their "II" series guns isn't such a good idea after all.

I feel your pain when it comes to poor factory service.

Some years back I had a Colt 1911 I'd purchased new . . . if "Jammamatic" were in the dictionary, this gun would have been the accompanying picture. Colt's got the gun back repeatedly and it remained a jammamatic. Thanks to their factory NON-service, I've never bought another Colt product, and don't plan to in the future.

I've also read of other people having problems with SA EMPs, so you're not alone in that regard.

Funny, isn't it, how problem guns show up in forums like these, but NEVER, EVER show up in the reviews published by the gun rags?

Just a note about the Kimber Series II and disassembly/reassembly (I know ScubaSigGuy knows this; it's for someone new to 'em who may pick one up and want to do a take-down).

The Schwartz-type safety is activated by pressing the grip safety. If you squeeze the grip and depress the safety, up pops the Schwartz firing pin block from the frame...and will prevent you from (without undue force) removing or installing the slide. So when you disassemble or reasemble a Series II, make sure you don't depress the grip safety while trying to pull the slide off or put it back on. (This is another reason why, for the bull-barrel models, the little take-down pin is so important: it's pretty difficult to manipulate the slide without squeezing the grip safety unless the recoil spring is captured by the take-down pin.)


Oh, and ScubaSigGuy, I've gotten used to guns--even brand new ones--coming from Kimber dirty. I think they used to take flack over insufficient test firing, so at some point they decided to stop cleaning the pistols before shipping...I believe just as a point of proof that it really was test fired multiple times. Good luck with yours. So far, I'm happy with my new Ultra CDP, but it only has a few rounds down the pipe; more to follow this weekend.

Skiprr wrote: Oh, and ScubaSigGuy, I've gotten used to guns--even brand new ones--coming from Kimber dirty. I think they used to take flack over insufficient test firing, so at some point they decided to stop cleaning the pistols before shipping...I believe just as a point of proof that it really was test fired multiple times. Good luck with yours. So far, I'm happy with my new Ultra CDP, but it only has a few rounds down the pipe; more to follow this weekend.

I spoke with Kimber this morning and it was funny because he explained just that in regard to cleaning the gun. He said that they wanted me to know that they test fired it. LOL.

He did clarify a few things and as I suspected he test fired the gun prior to having the mainspring cover replaced. The mainspring adjustment cause that safety to not retract fully causing the slide to lock in place on top of the safety. he told to apply pressure to get it to come off. He even istructed me to put a towel on the table and use the edge of the table for leverage. LOL. When I toldthe tech that there is a ding in the rear corner of the frame that was not there prior and that the gun looks to have been dropped he offered to send a call tag for UPS to pickup the pistol at Kimber's expense. He promised to repair and refinish the frame. I think that they will have to replace it, but we'll see.

SSG, sorry to hear this.

When they worked my Tactical Ultra II, it came back dirty as well, for the same reason they mentioned. However, it was in otherwise pristine condition.

This is why I don't own a Kimber. I read an article some time ago about the Denver PD having a problem with them. They are no longer authorized for carry!

I wrote repeatedly in 1911forum about the Kimber problem. Apparently everybody thinks I was a troll.

For a gun that cost $1000, it should NOT have any problem right out of the box or at the bare minimum meets the Six Sigma quality standard, which is 3 defects in a million. From quality point of view, The Ultra CDP II is a total failure.

This is the primary reason that I suggest to add at LEAST $200 to the original purchase price as the true cost of the gun, if it's ever fixed right.

OK, I still decided to take a chance and bought the CDP II mainly because its size and carry-ability. I had problem right from the begining and sent it back to Kimber.

So far, it only jammed once/150rd, but I don't have that much money to try more. Personally, I would say go with the Kimber Tac-mags, which have been great.

I want to post an update for anyone who read this and was curious about the EMP. I recieved it back from Springfield a week ago. They replaced the entire slide, polished and throated the barrel and feed ramp, tuned the ejector, and replaced the firing pin. They also replaced the grips and adjusted the ambi-safety. It may have been an early model that was shipped with the incorrect grips to begin with. they were not slotted to allow the ambi-safety to slide very well and subsequently the safety was stiff and hard to manipulate with your thumb. I have since run 150 rds of UMC ball through it and 50 rds of various hollow points without a hiccup. The slide does seem slightly inferior cosmetically (tool marks and rough edges inside) but functions perfectly. I may take the Dremel to a few of the rough edges (I know, I know). Overall Springfield's customer service was great to work with, and I am very pleased.

Stupid wrote:I wrote repeatedly in 1911forum about the Kimber problem. Apparently everybody thinks I was a troll.

For a gun that cost $1000, it should NOT have any problem right out of the box or at the bare minimum meets the Six Sigma quality standard, which is 3 defects in a million. From quality point of view, The Ultra CDP II is a total failure.

This is the primary reason that I suggest to add at LEAST $200 to the original purchase price as the true cost of the gun, if it's ever fixed right.

OK, I still decided to take a chance and bought the CDP II mainly because its size and carry-ability. I had problem right from the begining and sent it back to Kimber.

So far, it only jammed once/150rd, but I don't have that much money to try more. Personally, I would say go with the Kimber Tac-mags, which have been great.

Which CDP do you have? What was your "problem" and what is a jam? Fail to Feed, Fail to eject, fail to go into battery, double feed, stovepipe...?

I have complete faith in Kimber. I sold them for several years, and never had an unhappy customer. I have had my Custom CDP II to MANY classes, and it has never even hiccuped. I don't clean it between days of training either.

I have had my Warrior to a couple of classes also, and it ran flawlessly.

I never had an issue on break-in either, except with the standard Kimber magazine. Wilsons run perfectly for me.

My father has 2 compact Kimbers. He was getting a FTE occasionally, but when I shot it it ran fine. I discovered he was limp wristing a little, as he was used to shooting a huge, heavy Beretta 9. Fixed the grip, over 1k rounds no problemo.

I am not doubting YOUR problems or questioning your being factual here. Just my $.02.

Kimbers are very tight, and not made loose like other brands. (that is for a reason) Nothing wrong with other brands, but generally the accuracy is much better on a tighter gun.

A little break in is fair.