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Hello and thanks in advance for any advice..

I currently own a P3AT that I intend to pocket carry once the mailman shows up with my plastic, however I am looking into purchasing something slightly larger for IWB carry. I've shot the M&P Sheild 9 which I felt was a fantastic weapon, love the short trigger compared to the P3AT (and the Beretta 8000D I also own). My question, or more directly my concern is carrying two completely different trigger types. The biggest shock for me with the M&P was how quick, light and short the pull was - actually surprised me the first time I fired it. The muscle memory for the type types is VERY different.

If I am intend to carry my P3AT a majority of the time, would it be safer/smarter to also carry a larger DA firearm (LC9, LC380, etc..) to keep the pull somewhat consistent?

Everyone is different in their preferences. I don't see anything odd in mixing and matching. I tend to carry a Glock 17 and a S&W 442. The two trigger pulls are completely different. The main thing is practicing to where you can get good hits with whatever you choose to carry.

I carry weapons of several different trigger types, from DAO snubby revolvers to SAO 1911s, and several kinds of triggers in between. Get used to them. Practice with them. Do it until they all are second nature to you. Then you can relax and forget about it.

I'll be the odd man out in this discussion I guess. I do not believe that muscle memory is selective, and that your subconscious knows what you are carrying on any given day so it may decide whether or not there is a safety to release, or a long or short trigger pull required, etc. One may practice with each weapon individually to the max, but in the heat of a life or death situation it is the muscle memory which rules, and it had better be computing what you need to do with the particular firearm you have in hand.
MHO of course.

I think carrying different action types deserves a little more practice. For example, when I practice my draw, I thumb off the safety even if that semiauto doesn't have a safety, because I don't want to build muscle memory that could get me in deeper trouble if I need to use my 1911. A revolver feels different enough that I don't worry about it, much like a motorcycle feels different enough from a car. However, the polymer pistols feel similar enough to my 1911 in the same way my parents' car feels like my car. If I'm driving them around in their land yacht and go for a clutch that isn't there in hard braking, that's better than forgetting the clutch with my manual tranny.

gringo pistolero wrote:I think carrying different action types deserves a little more practice. For example, when I practice my draw, I thumb off the safety even if that semiauto doesn't have a safety, because I don't want to build muscle memory that could get me in deeper trouble if I need to use my 1911. A revolver feels different enough that I don't worry about it, much like a motorcycle feels different enough from a car. However, the polymer pistols feel similar enough to my 1911 in the same way my parents' car feels like my car. If I'm driving them around in their land yacht and go for a clutch that isn't there in hard braking, that's better than forgetting the clutch with my manual tranny.

I hope your thumbs are in a different position when you fire your revolver than they are when you fire your SA

Yes. Like my feet are in a different position when I'm riding a motorcycle than when I'm driving a car or truck.

gringo pistolero wrote:Yes. Like my feet are in a different position when I'm riding a motorcycle than when I'm driving a car or truck.

You have a point, except I'd say it was comparing apples to oranges. It's like comparing shooting, under immense pressure, a rifle vs. a handgun. I believe that one's subconscious can tell the difference without any help on our part. But with handguns, that feel the same and require the same actions to draw, grip, and accurately fire, but with differences in safeties, triggers, etc. I just think it's a stretch to rely on muscle memory to know which one you have in your hand at a given time when the you-know-what is hitting the rotating blades. Again, this is just my opinion, and as I said, I'm probably the odd man out.

I agree with Andy and TAM. I shoot several different weapons in competition. Yes, I am better with some than others (meaning faster), and I really only think that is because of the lack of practice with that particular platform or competition. For instance, the new M&P Core I got this past week has already had about 500 rounds through it, and I'm liking it, however I don't have the muscle memory built up yet using the Delta sight, so I am still faster by a smidge with my R8 revolver. Of course I have over 10,000 rounds through the R8. I also shoot my 1911 in USPSA and IDPA.

So would I be confused if I picked up any one of these weapons under stress, I don't think so. The attacker might get stopped 2/100ths of a second slower with one than the other, so I guess I'll have to hope he blinks.

Now, I will also have to say that if you do not become proficient with the different platforms , you are better off sticking with ONE. Pratice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. If your firearm has a safety, then by golly practice using it everytime you use it. I hate seeing guys at the range that never touch the safety on a 1911 during target practice. Bad habit.

AndyC wrote:I call it "playing the tape".

You handle a firearm enough times to become intimately familiar with its function, you're storing a recording in your brain. When you pick that type of firearm up again, even after a few decades, your brain plays the tape and you can handle it almost as fluently as you ever did before.

At my age Andy, the tape player in my head is probably an old RCA turntable that plays 78 RPM records.

I respect your opinion based on your life/work experience, but the key word for me would be "almost." The average CHL does not have combat experience where pucker factor is at play, or compete in timed competitions where there is still perceived pressure. The vast majority are not practicing on combat courses, with movement, nor with targets that are moving, armed and firing back or first. But many of these CHLs have a "carry rotation" with handguns that differ in controls. That said, the average CHL, if forced to use deadly force may not have the time have even a "slight lag" or "almost" when we are possibly talking about life or death in terms of tenths of seconds.

Now I realize we are addressing handguns, but to me learned skills, proficiency, and muscle memory are essential, But, when differences in controls exist, I truly believe that there can be a lag in muscle memory, however slight, and that CHLs without the experience or practice I stated above are deluding themselves which could prove fatal in an actual gun fight.

Once again, MHO.

I'll put it this way..... I NEVER do not know which gun I am carrying, and I know each of my guns and I am familiar with their operation. If I suddenly have to draw my .357 snubby, I'm never going to accidentally think for 2/100 of a second that the M&P340 in my hand is a 5" 1911, or visa versa.

Now, I may be a better shot with one model/caliber over another model/caliber, but I simply never make the mistake of confusing the controls of one gun for the controls of another.

The Annoyed Man wrote:I'll put it this way..... I NEVER do not know which gun I am carrying, and I know each of my guns and I am familiar with their operation. If I suddenly have to draw my .357 snubby, I'm never going to accidentally think for 2/100 of a second that the M&P340 in my hand is a 5" 1911, or visa versa.

Now, I may be a better shot with one model/caliber over another model/caliber, but I simply never make the mistake of confusing the controls of one gun for the controls of another.

TAM, I'm not addressing a revolver vs a SA as they differ dramatically in feel, and I'm not addressing if one "knows" what they are carrying on any given day. I would certainly hope so. However, as an example, if a CHL carries both a S&W Shield (w/safety) and a S&W XDs (9mm without manual safety) in their rotation, there is very little difference in feel. You are relying on your consciousness to tell you which gun you are carrying on any given day, and I am addressing the subconscious (muscle memory). If the user has been carrying the XDs for a few days/weeks, and then carries the Shield (unless they carry the Shield with the safety off,) it's not his/her conscious that will tell him/her to switch the safety off before firing, it's muscle memory that comes into play and it won't know the difference. As both guns are about the same size and feel, my point is that it's that first pull of the trigger with the safety still on that may make the difference in who comes out on top. In a gun fight of any kind, the reliance on training, skill, and muscle memory make the difference when massive stress, pressure and fear are in play, not the conscious thought of which gun one may be carrying.

Once again, I realize that I am in the minority here, and I base my views on my own experience.

G26ster is correct, mixing single action and double action carry guns can get you killed. When the lead starts flying and you pull that 1911 that you just started carrying after having carried an M&P or Glock for a couple of months you may not instinctively turn the safety off or, you may not grip it hard enough to disconnect the grip safety. I see things like this happen all the time during IDPA matches. Joe has been shooting SSP with a G17 and decides to try his hand at CDP with a Colt. First string he fails to turn off the safety until after he tries to pull the trigger three times. He's not accustomed to the short take up and almost non existent reset and fires double or triple taps. It's sad to watch a good shooter let a gun rule him in a match. How much sadder to let a gun get him killed?

We all perform at the lowest level of our competence when the chips are down.

G26ster wrote:In a gun fight of any kind, the reliance on training, skill, and muscle memory make the difference when massive stress, pressure and fear are in play, not the conscious thought of which gun one may be carrying.

Once again, I realize that I am in the minority here, and I base my views on my own experience.

G26ster, I made essentially the same comment above when when I said:

The Annoyed Man wrote:I carry weapons of several different trigger types, from DAO snubby revolvers to SAO 1911s, and several kinds of triggers in between.
I carry weapons of several different trigger types, from DAO snubby revolvers to SAO 1911s, and several kinds of triggers in between. Get used to them. Practice with them. Do it until they all are second nature to you. Then you can relax and forget about it.

I don't think your opinion is actually in the minority.