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I have a friend whose has stated that if he finds himself in a situation requiring deadly force in self defense, he intends to "shoot them to the ground". His mindset was formed serving in Iraq. Personally, I'll add the modifying phrase, "or the threat is stopped", since I live in a civilian world.

It sure isn't "shoot once and stop to see what happened".

XGC Radioactive wrote: Daniel was arrested and taken to jail. He was deemed innocent in court, after 17 months of court, and a large lawyer bill, but he's still alive.

Curious:
The DFW LEOs are probably more fed up with that area than many of us. What was he charged with? Why was he charged?
What were his legal bills?
Would he make the same decision again, or hand over the truck?

Tsk, tsk, you'll get corrected for that language. Rule 1, terms of service.

Jumping Frog wrote:Tsk, tsk, you'll get corrected for that language. Rule 1, terms of service.

My apologies, I thought since it wasn't fully typed, that it was okay. I will fix it.
Thanks for the friendly advice.

You could be a little less rude.

I fear that I would have the temptation to talk and or joke with anyone around. I tend to react to stress with humor. I just try to think about it a lot to make sure that would be on my mind.

Treyvon died from one shot, from a Kel Tec no less.

I've never been a believer in the one-shot stop or the "shoot until they fall" technique. As an old-school revolver shooter, I lean more toward the double-tap and triple-tap techniques. It conserves ammo in case of multiple attackers, and it gives the bullets a chance to work. Only time I prefer to shoot until empty is in smaller-caliber guns like .22lr or .25ACP.

It should be 'There is no such thing as a guaranteed one shot gunfight'. I personally have seen two that ended with a single gunshot. Unless the person is hit with the shot and it shuts down their central nervous system or just gives up after being shot they have the capability of continuing to fight for some time afterward until they bleed out, even with a lethal shot.

Keith B wrote:It should be 'There is no such thing as a guaranteed one shot gunfight'. I personally have seen two that ended with a single gunshot. Unless the person is hit with the shot and it shuts down their central nervous system or just gives up after being shot they have the capability of continuing to fight for some time afterward until they bleed out, even with a lethal shot.

But the fact that the human body has the ability to keep going. I'm a medic. I haven't worked long, but I've seen some wild things. Most of the time when I arrive, it's been several minutes, and the adrenaline is wearing off. I couldn't image walking that far with 10 shots to the chest. But then again I also couldn't image being shot.

XGC Radioactive wrote:

Keith B wrote:It should be 'There is no such thing as a guaranteed one shot gunfight'. I personally have seen two that ended with a single gunshot. Unless the person is hit with the shot and it shuts down their central nervous system or just gives up after being shot they have the capability of continuing to fight for some time afterward until they bleed out, even with a lethal shot.

But the fact that the human body has the ability to keep going. I'm a medic. I haven't worked long, but I've seen some wild things. Most of the time when I arrive, it's been several minutes, and the adrenaline is wearing off. I couldn't image walking that far with 10 shots to the chest. But then again I also couldn't image being shot.

A chest shot can be one of the most survivable wounds there is if no vital organ is hit. 10 shots is a lot, but say 1 or 2 shots and a person can live several minutes before bleeding out enough to loose consciousness with only one lung hit. During that time if they are amped up on drugs or even just the adrenaline rush, they can still continue to fight. The more holes punched into the body to loose more blood, then faster that person will go down. A person can still live after a heart shot 6-8 seconds and continue pulling the trigger. Much longer for non-vital organ hits until they bleed down enough to stop fighting.

The only real 'lights out' shots are central nervous system hits (spine, head) where the system shuts down due to the shock from the bullet and the brain ceases to be able to function or control the body. Even then the person may still be alive, just unable to fight back.

Jumping Frog wrote:I have a friend whose has stated that if he finds himself in a situation requiring deadly force in self defense, he intends to "shoot them to the ground". His mindset was formed serving in Iraq. Personally, I'll add the modifying phrase, "or the threat is stopped", since I live in a civilian world.

It sure isn't "shoot once and stop to see what happened".

I have read that this is sometimes a complaint with warfighters armed with M4s. I recall a certain war correspondent being caught up in the a firefight between elements Deuce Four Stryker Brigade and a jihadi holed up in a house. The Lt Colonel in command happened to be involved and got hit at least once, a 762.x39 round breaking his femur and he went down in the middle of the street, attempting to return fire. The jihadi took multiple 5.56 hits, in the abdomen, legs, and splattered one testicle ( ) and was still in the fight. He had to be tackled and wrested down by the CSM who had been accompanying the officer. The were fighting for control of a knife or pistol or something. The jihadi survived and was medevac'd. Turned out he had been involved in previous attacks against Deuce Four in which one of their troops was killed.

The point being that, even a small caliber rifle can fail to stop a determined enemy, so it should be no surprise that handguns can fail to do the same. It is true that Treyvon Martin was hit by one shot from a Kel-Tech, but it is equally true that about 80% of gunshot people survive their wounds. Treyvon is thus the exception rather than the rule. In order for a GSW to immediately incapacitate/kill, it has to hit a vital structure that produces immediate CNS shutdown, immediate shutdown of motor capacity by transection of the spinal chord, or immediate loss of vaso-pressure (holed aorta). Any other incapacitation is in response to pain or the psychological response to having been shot.

During the 5-6 years I worked in an ER, I saw a lot of gunshot patients. Many were shot more than once. Most survived. Some did not.

The Annoyed Man wrote:During the 5-6 years I worked in an ER, I saw a lot of gunshot patients. Many were shot more than once. Most survived. Some did not.

I have treated a man shot though the heart with a .45 that survived and I called a DRT that was shot once in the buttocks with a .22. The first CHL shooting in Texas was a one shot drop of a 400# plus Samoan. But I have also treated a teenager with an entire magazine of 9mm from a cop that I saw a few months later on the street.

The point is I don't think we can "standardize" "one shot" vs "empty the gun" as always effective or never effective.

There was another thread posted recently (I'll add the link when I find it) that had a link to a video. Anyway, one of the stats that I remember the guy saying is that 6 out of 7 people in the USA shot with handguns will survive it. I found that to be very interesting information, and I mean that.

EDITED TO ADD LINK TO VIDEO:

WARNING: THIS VIDEO HAS GRAPHIC IMAGES!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tku8YI68-JA