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My wife, daughter, son-in-law, and I rented a private lane a couple of weekends ago. I've had my CHL for a little over a year, and my Glock 23 for almost two years, and this was the first time I've been able to practice draw and fire, and do multiple rapid fires. That was the main reason I wanted a private lane. I was surprised at how easily both came to me.

But my SiL started doing something I had not thought of, and I found it interesting. He would set the target (usually either 7 yards or 10 yards) and then have one of us hit the return button. The target moving was his "OK" to shoot.

I did it from a holstered position, and found that I could only get 3, sometimes 4 shots off at 7 yards. I found that surprising. It doesn't really "worry" me, I know that in "real life" a target wouldn't be able to keep coming at me after the 1st or 2nd shots hit, but just found it interesting what we think we can do, compared to reality.

There was one other experiment I found "educational". I took my SiL's handgun and mine both at the same time, and tried shooting a few rounds with a gun in each hand. As soon as I pulled them up, I mentioned to him that you can't aim them like that, all you can do is point. I fired 5 rounds from each gun at 7 yards, and the shots were all over the place, some missing center-mass completely.

So, 3 or 4 shots made accurately trump 10 shots fired "gansta style".

AndyC wrote:Google "Teuller Drill" sometime.

This

Odds are, they will probably not stop after only 1-2 shots. Reality does bite sometimes and it can be quite shocking. My BIL video recorded my daughter doing her first IDPA match for me and also got a few of me. When I watched it, my first thought was, "was I really going that slow?" It sure seemed faster in my head while doing it. Since then I've been working a little more on my speed. My last match, I actually had the lowest score on one of the 6 stages.

I'm slow, but I'm inaccurate.

baldeagle wrote:I'm slow, but I'm inaccurate.

Quit talking about me!

Your experience with the approaching target, like a charging attacker becomes instructive when you have thinking opponents. That is the advantage of FOF exercises, you truly find some of your limitations. These can be your tactics, equipment, or skill level. Targets stay stationary, adversaries do not and a square range can give you a false sense of security.

AndyC wrote:Google "Teuller Drill" sometime.

I did, and found that interesting. I suspect the target mechanism at the range moved slower than attacking runner would. That would explain why I was able to get 3, sometimes 4 shots off. Actually, the "2 gun" exercise opened my eyes more than anything else. I have to admit, I had the glamorized view of doing a "point shoot" like you see in the movies. I'm convinced now that there's really not much chance of that actually working.

Try shooting while creating distance. It's fun and humbling.

Found this after googling the drill. Very informative.

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=jwHYRBNc9r8[/youtube]

That video does illustrate the problem of an approaching attacker, but who tells some one to stay back at 20 feet away. How about sidewalks? Another item is the defender back pedals to attempt to create distance and he readily demonstrates that it is futile for a couple of reasons. The attacker is substantually faster since he is going forward and the defender is going much slower as well as risking falling to the ground due to tripping or ground obstructions. The defender was lucky there was not a car/wall behind him to trap him as well. The more effective approach for the defender would be to execute a rapid movement laterally to cause the attacker have to make a decision, second to change his vector, and create more space. Most likely with a lateral movement, the attacker would over shoot the defender allowing him to continue putting rounds into the attacker while maintaining sufficient distance to stay out of knife range. Then the attacker has brought a knife to a gun fight versus the case of the defender bringing a gun to a knife fight. WIthout lateral movement this is not a very survivable scenario. Can you still put rounds on target then? Have you practiced this situation?

ammoboy2 wrote:That video does illustrate the problem of an approaching attacker, but who tells some one to stay back at 20 feet away. How about sidewalks? Another item is the defender back pedals to attempt to create distance and he readily demonstrates that it is futile for a couple of reasons. The attacker is substantually faster since he is going forward and the defender is going much slower as well as risking falling to the ground due to tripping or ground obstructions. The defender was lucky there was not a car/wall behind him to trap him as well. The more effective approach for the defender would be to execute a rapid movement laterally to cause the attacker have to make a decision, second to change his vector, and create more space. Most likely with a lateral movement, the attacker would over shoot the defender allowing him to continue putting rounds into the attacker while maintaining sufficient distance to stay out of knife range. Then the attacker has brought a knife to a gun fight versus the case of the defender bringing a gun to a knife fight. WIthout lateral movement this is not a very survivable scenario. Can you still put rounds on target then? Have you practiced this situation?

I will be now!

Good to hear it, the bigest problem you will have is finding a range to practice moving and shooting. It might also be tricky finding a training partner for the attacker role. That is where airsoft comes in with the use of full face masks and airsoft weapons you can go near full speed and also practice putting rounds on a live opponent, who will try to prevent you from being successful.

ammoboy2 wrote:Your experience with the approaching target, like a charging attacker becomes instructive when you have thinking opponents. That is the advantage of FOF exercises, you truly find some of your limitations. These can be your tactics, equipment, or skill level. Targets stay stationary, adversaries do not and a square range can give you a false sense of security.

Force on force training gives your thoughts a whole new place to go. Opponents doing what you don't expect throws you for a loop quite often. Getting hit by Airsoft pellets is a good reminder that incoming fire has the right of way and you don't move nearly as fast as you think.

When I was active in IDPA, before my knee replacement, we ran several scenarios with moving targets: moving toward the shooter, moving away from the shooter, and across, as well as shooting on the move. The one I found the most difficult was moving backwards while engaging a BG moving toward me.

Can I ask where the range was?