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With a toddler in the house now, even though my EDC is out of reach and secure, I have switched to condition 3 when the weapon is not in my holster on my hip. I have noticed a slight setback issue on a couple of rounds, but nothing like any of the pictures I have seen used as examples of bullet setback. My question is this: does anyone have a general rule for how many times you can chamber a round before switching to a new round? Also, how much setback is too much? My EDC can handle +P, so I'm not worried about a little, but I certainly don't want to push that envelope just to save 75 cents. Is there a general measurement (i.e. .01 inches) to when a round becomes unsafe?

I have been carrying Speer Gold Dot (230 Grain .45 ACP) for the last 6 months, and I have noticed less bullet setback compared to Ranger T's. I don't know if there are certain brands that are better than others at surviving re-chambering.

I would love some wisdom imparted from those who know concerning these issues, Thanks.

My rule is:

If you can measure it, or, even worse, see it - it's time to replace the round.

I also replace if there are more than 4 or 5 extractor marks on the rim.

Most of my carry ammo has a cannelure so it's fairly easy to see even the slightest setback. I'm not regularly rechambering a round so it hasn't reared it's head yet. I shoot my carry ammo once a year and reload with new and I haven't seen any set back yet.

If you can visually see it, it is already too much.

If you are worried about the toddler, why not use one of those quick-open handgun safes instead, and leave the gun loaded?

Jumping Frog wrote:If you can visually see it, it is already too much.

If you are worried about the toddler, why not use one of those quick-open handgun safes instead, and leave the gun loaded?

Thats a good point. I'm not as much worried that she will get into the firearm - we have lots of talks regularly and she knows and follows Eddie the Eagle's instruction. At this point, she has shown that she knows not to touch a gun, and respects them as much as a three year old could. Concerning the quick-open safes, I guess I've held back from getting one of them because I had bad luck with one a couple years ago. The lock jammed, and all I had to do to break it open was drop it on the carpeted floor - it popped right open with no effort. My next best idea was to keep it way out of reach and in condition 3 - or just completely unloaded. I keep it in condition 3 for two reasons - 1. She does not know to rack the slide, nor is she strong enough to do it, and 2. even if she knew to rack the slide, the firearm is an XDm, so she would need to know to engage the grip safety in order to rack it anyway.

I volunteer all of this information just in case anyone has better suggestions. I will certainly put my child's safety before my pride any day.

Rrash wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:If you can visually see it, it is already too much.

If you are worried about the toddler, why not use one of those quick-open handgun safes instead, and leave the gun loaded?

Thats a good point. I'm not as much worried that she will get into the firearm - we have lots of talks regularly and she knows and follows Eddie the Eagle's instruction. At this point, she has shown that she knows not to touch a gun, and respects them as much as a three year old could. Concerning the quick-open safes, I guess I've held back from getting one of them because I had bad luck with one a couple years ago. The lock jammed, and all I had to do to break it open was drop it on the carpeted floor - it popped right open with no effort. My next best idea was to keep it way out of reach and in condition 3 - or just completely unloaded. I keep it in condition 3 for two reasons - 1. She does not know to rack the slide, nor is she strong enough to do it, and 2. even if she knew to rack the slide, the firearm is an XDm, so she would need to know to engage the grip safety in order to rack it anyway.

I volunteer all of this information just in case anyone has better suggestions. I will certainly put my child's safety before my pride any day.

I use a vline drawer safe with a simplex lock. I seriously doubt dropping it will cause it to open. I can fit a full size Sig226 and my M&P 45c with an extra mag each in it. Once you get used to the combo sequence you can open it very quickly and it doesn't need batteries. Very solid safe.

http://www.deansafe.com/v-line-2912-s-f ... -safe.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

olafpfj wrote:

Rrash wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:If you can visually see it, it is already too much.

If you are worried about the toddler, why not use one of those quick-open handgun safes instead, and leave the gun loaded?

Thats a good point. I'm not as much worried that she will get into the firearm - we have lots of talks regularly and she knows and follows Eddie the Eagle's instruction. At this point, she has shown that she knows not to touch a gun, and respects them as much as a three year old could. Concerning the quick-open safes, I guess I've held back from getting one of them because I had bad luck with one a couple years ago. The lock jammed, and all I had to do to break it open was drop it on the carpeted floor - it popped right open with no effort. My next best idea was to keep it way out of reach and in condition 3 - or just completely unloaded. I keep it in condition 3 for two reasons - 1. She does not know to rack the slide, nor is she strong enough to do it, and 2. even if she knew to rack the slide, the firearm is an XDm, so she would need to know to engage the grip safety in order to rack it anyway.

I volunteer all of this information just in case anyone has better suggestions. I will certainly put my child's safety before my pride any day.

I use a vline drawer safe with a simplex lock. I seriously doubt dropping it will cause it to open. I can fit a full size Sig226 and my M&P 45c with an extra mag each in it. Once you get used to the combo sequence you can open it very quickly and it doesn't need batteries. Very solid safe.

http://www.deansafe.com/v-line-2912-s-f ... -safe.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Securing it to the drawer pretty much eliminates the open by dropping concern. The drawer would absorb enough impact that it's unlikely there'd be enough energy left to pop the lock.

olafpfj wrote:

Rrash wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote:If you can visually see it, it is already too much.

If you are worried about the toddler, why not use one of those quick-open handgun safes instead, and leave the gun loaded?

Thats a good point. I'm not as much worried that she will get into the firearm - we have lots of talks regularly and she knows and follows Eddie the Eagle's instruction. At this point, she has shown that she knows not to touch a gun, and respects them as much as a three year old could. Concerning the quick-open safes, I guess I've held back from getting one of them because I had bad luck with one a couple years ago. The lock jammed, and all I had to do to break it open was drop it on the carpeted floor - it popped right open with no effort. My next best idea was to keep it way out of reach and in condition 3 - or just completely unloaded. I keep it in condition 3 for two reasons - 1. She does not know to rack the slide, nor is she strong enough to do it, and 2. even if she knew to rack the slide, the firearm is an XDm, so she would need to know to engage the grip safety in order to rack it anyway.

I volunteer all of this information just in case anyone has better suggestions. I will certainly put my child's safety before my pride any day.

I use a vline drawer safe with a simplex lock. I seriously doubt dropping it will cause it to open. I can fit a full size Sig226 and my M&P 45c with an extra mag each in it. Once you get used to the combo sequence you can open it very quickly and it doesn't need batteries. Very solid safe.

http://www.deansafe.com/v-line-2912-s-f ... -safe.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

+1 for the V-line safe. Not the cheapest, but heavy and durable with a nice, quick to open simplex lock.

Rrash wrote:
. . .I have been carrying Speer Gold Dot (230 Grain .45 ACP) for the last 6 months, and I have noticed less bullet setback compared to Ranger T's. I don't know if there are certain brands that are better than others at surviving re-chambering.
. . .

I have not noticed about my pistol ammo having set backs, but my Hornady rounds for my AR set back very easy. They are not cheap either.

carlson1 wrote:

Rrash wrote:
. . .I have been carrying Speer Gold Dot (230 Grain .45 ACP) for the last 6 months, and I have noticed less bullet setback compared to Ranger T's. I don't know if there are certain brands that are better than others at surviving re-chambering.
. . .

I have not noticed about my pistol ammo having set backs, but my Hornady rounds for my AR set back very easy. They are not cheap either.

Yep especially if the mag double feeds. I had one AR round set back nearly all the way back in the brass.

carlson1 wrote: I have not noticed about my pistol ammo having set backs, but my Hornady rounds for my AR set back very easy. They are not cheap either.

I actually went back and measured the rounds with a digital caliper. Speer Gold Dot 230 gr .45 ACP averages 1.205 inches. The one in question was 1.198 inches (crazy that you can see that small of a difference), so I went ahead and moved that to a range pile. Interestingly enough, I found another round in a brand new box that was 1.199 inches, so I'm not sure if it was setback or just a quality control thing. I'm sure the 6/1000ths of an inch can't make that much of a difference, but it didn't hurt to find out all of this information. All the rest of the rounds (I rotate the rounds) measured and looked fine. Only one had some extractor marks that caught my attention. The rest of the rims and extractor grooves felt okay.

Before and after caliper measurements work :) However, measuring factory ammo quickly leads to spending a ton of money on investing in reloading equipment.

I use a marker to see if I have setback. Here is an illustration using a dummy round:

The procedure is: mark round, chamber and then unload round. Then inspect the gap between the brass and the marker line on the projectile as a visual indicator of setback.

DocV wrote:measuring factory ammo quickly leads to spending a ton of money on investing in reloading equipment.

Just don't tell my wife!