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Some of their techniques I get because you want to know what to do if you're injured and the fight isn't over, but most of these just look dangerous and/or pointless.
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Csrr6qkf5Vk[/youtube]

Hey, as long as you're looking cool right?

Moe, Larry, and Curly

I'm pretty sure that's a range I used to shoot at: http://www.burrocanyon.com/

Yeah, but my recoil springs are not that light.

Dave2 wrote:Some of their techniques I get because you want to know what to do if you're injured and the fight isn't over, but most of these just look dangerous and/or pointless.
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Csrr6qkf5Vk[/youtube]

I guess I'm not seeing what you're seeing. What in particularly do you find troubling? I took an advanced pistol course and just about everything in the video was either taught as a practical exercise or discussed. I think the only thing that wasn't covered was the upside shooting. However, I took a level 1 course and haven't taken the level 2 so I expect other techniques would be taught there.

VMI77 wrote:I guess I'm not seeing what you're seeing. What in particularly do you find troubling? I took an advanced pistol course and just about everything in the video was either taught as a practical exercise or discussed. I think the only thing that wasn't covered was the upside shooting. However, I took a level 1 course and haven't taken the level 2 so I expect other techniques would be taught there.

I'd have to watch it again to get the time stamps, but IIRC the only difference between several of their "tactical reloads" was which major artery/organ you'd hit if you had poor trigger discipline and accidentally pulled the trigger right after the slide closed. Plus, IMHO (and in this regard it's an uneducated opinion, at that), I think I'd be better served by putting the same amount of effort into training to use the slide release, with my fallback being to push the muzzle against the ground or my heel. As I said, though, this is definitely *not* my area of expertise, so maybe my thread title is way off-base.

Although I will say that you'll have trouble convincing me that their tactical groin reload is a good idea. I just can't imagine a scenario in which that's the only option I have.

It all looked okay to me.

As someone else said above though, my recoil springs aren't light enough to cycle the action using centrifugal force.

Other than that, their tactics are solid.

Dave2 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:I guess I'm not seeing what you're seeing. What in particularly do you find troubling? I took an advanced pistol course and just about everything in the video was either taught as a practical exercise or discussed. I think the only thing that wasn't covered was the upside shooting. However, I took a level 1 course and haven't taken the level 2 so I expect other techniques would be taught there.

I'd have to watch it again to get the time stamps, but IIRC the only difference between several of their "tactical reloads" was which major artery/organ you'd hit if you had poor trigger discipline and accidentally pulled the trigger right after the slide closed. Plus, IMHO (and in this regard it's an uneducated opinion, at that), I think I'd be better served by putting the same amount of effort into training to use the slide release, with my fallback being to push the muzzle against the ground or my heel. As I said, though, this is definitely *not* my area of expertise, so maybe my thread title is way off-base.

Although I will say that you'll have trouble convincing me that their tactical groin reload is a good idea. I just can't imagine a scenario in which that's the only option I have.

Well, part of the instruction and practice is to keep your finger off the trigger until your gun is pointed at the target you intend to shoot. Some people think Blackhawk Serpa holsters are dangerous because if you don't have proper trigger discipline you can end up with your finger on the trigger as the gun clears the holster. I've never had a problem with it because I was taught and practice ensuring my finger is indexed well above the trigger up on the slide.

The reloads using belt buckle and boots are for extreme situations where you're wounded and can only use one hand. Both are taught because there may be situation where you physically can't use the other. Remember, these techniques are for gun fighting, not a normal day at the range. The default move is to the most reliable because if you waste a second or two trying to manipulate your gun or recover from the gun being, say, out of battery, you may end up dead. You're taught tactically not to use the slide release because it doesn't always feed a round reliably and can produce an out of battery condition and because not all slide releases work the same way. Maybe you disarmed a bad guy or did a battlefield pickup.....the preferred method is to rack the slide because no matter what gun you have in your hand that is likely to work. It's suggested you do that especially if you carry more than one type of semi-auto. If you change methods from gun to gun or end up with one you're not used to your chances of having a problem in the heat of the moment go up. If you use the same technique each and every time you shoot a semi-auto you're far more likely to get it right in the heat of the moment.

VMI77 wrote:

Dave2 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:I guess I'm not seeing what you're seeing. What in particularly do you find troubling? I took an advanced pistol course and just about everything in the video was either taught as a practical exercise or discussed. I think the only thing that wasn't covered was the upside shooting. However, I took a level 1 course and haven't taken the level 2 so I expect other techniques would be taught there.

I'd have to watch it again to get the time stamps, but IIRC the only difference between several of their "tactical reloads" was which major artery/organ you'd hit if you had poor trigger discipline and accidentally pulled the trigger right after the slide closed. Plus, IMHO (and in this regard it's an uneducated opinion, at that), I think I'd be better served by putting the same amount of effort into training to use the slide release, with my fallback being to push the muzzle against the ground or my heel. As I said, though, this is definitely *not* my area of expertise, so maybe my thread title is way off-base.

Although I will say that you'll have trouble convincing me that their tactical groin reload is a good idea. I just can't imagine a scenario in which that's the only option I have.

Well, part of the instruction and practice is to keep your finger off the trigger until your gun is pointed at the target you intend to shoot. Some people think Blackhawk Serpa holsters are dangerous because if you don't have proper trigger discipline you can end up with your finger on the trigger as the gun clears the holster. I've never had a problem with it because I was taught and practice ensuring my finger is indexed well above the trigger up on the slide.

The reloads using belt buckle and boots are for extreme situations where you're wounded and can only use one hand. Both are taught because there may be situation where you physically can't use the other. Remember, these techniques are for gun fighting, not a normal day at the range. The default move is to the most reliable because if you waste a second or two trying to manipulate your gun or recover from the gun being, say, out of battery, you may end up dead. You're taught tactically not to use the slide release because it doesn't always feed a round reliably and can produce an out of battery condition and because not all slide releases work the same way. Maybe you disarmed a bad guy or did a battlefield pickup.....the preferred method is to rack the slide because no matter what gun you have in your hand that is likely to work. It's suggested you do that especially if you carry more than one type of semi-auto. If you change methods from gun to gun or end up with one you're not used to your chances of having a problem in the heat of the moment go up. If you use the same technique each and every time you shoot a semi-auto you're far more likely to get it right in the heat of the moment.

We teach not to use the slide lock as a release for similar reasons. Admittedly, it is a little faster for competition....

McKnife wrote:It all looked okay to me.

As someone else said above though, my recoil springs aren't light enough to cycle the action using centrifugal force.

Other than that, their tactics are solid.

I didn't see anything really unsafe either. One handed manipulations are a good thing to practice. Although, I don't see the need for all the different ways they were doing it. I can't really think of a time when racking the slide off your belt using the rear sight wouldn't work. I don't claim to be an expert but that's how I have been taught in the classes that I have taken.

I have seen people doing the heel of the shoe thing before but I prefer to rack it off my belt or holster. That is the main reason I would never put the slanted style rear sights on a defensive pistol. I want a steep angle on my rear sight like the Trijicon HDs or XS sights. That way I can easily rack off my belt or another object if i had to. Rob Pincus markets a rear sight called the Claw that is specifically designed to do one handed manipulations.

Actually a cool video for what they're promoting. This wouldnt' be a beginners course, so guys shouldn't be showing off for their girfriends by attempting these reloads unless you have this leve of skill.

Texsquatch wrote:Actually a cool video for what they're promoting. This wouldnt' be a beginners course, so guys shouldn't be showing off for their girfriends by attempting these reloads unless you have this leve of skill.

Definitely don't try these with loaded rounds unless you are being observed by a competent instructor. You do have to have some kind of round in the gun to know if you actually performed the drill correctly. Lots of people think they are doing it right but when they try it with dummy rounds it doesn't work.