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In full and selective automatic rifles, there is a disonnector that would only release the hammer when the bolt has completely went forward and locked the bolt in place. In slide fire devices and the new trigger with positive reset characteristic, how the hammer/trigger is assured that the bolt has locked in place before its released?

Beiruty wrote:In full and selective automatic rifles, there is a sear that would only release the hammer when the bolt has completely went forward and locked the bolt in place. In slide fire devices and the new trigger with positive reset characteristic, how the hammer/trigger is assured that the bolt has locked in place before its released?

Wait... What?

Perhaps an alternate way to phrase the question would be:

Q.: In a semi-auto pistol, how does a mechanical safety operate to assure the slide is fully closed before allowing the hammer or striker to release? In other words, how does it assure the pistol does not fire out of battery?

A.: Most modern semi-autos have a disconnector or out of battery safety - you even move the slide slightly and the weapon will not fire. This is easy to verify with your UNLOADED semi-auto by seeing if it will fire with the slide pressed back at varying amounts.

Many pistols will fire slightly out of battery -- oh, say, 1/16" to 1/8". There have been notorious flame wars on the internet about some Glocks firing out of battery, so I will use the Glock mechanism as one example of a disconnector. In the Glock pistol, the disconnector is located on the top of the connector (ie. the disconnector tab). When the Glock's slide moves to the rear, the disconnector tab on top of the connector contacts the slide rail cut and moves the connector towards the center of the weapon. This disengages the trigger bar from the connector and makes the weapon safe (unable to fire). With the Glock pistol, the slide moves only a short distance to the rear when the barrel starts to move down (for the slide to continue its rearward travel). While this distance varies from pistol to pistol, it is shorter with Glocks than other makes of pistols. This is a contributing factor for the Glock out of battery discharges and subsequent damage to the firearms. With the pistol slightly out of battery, the disconnect feature on some Glock pistols has not disconnected the trigger bar and connector. This causes the pistol to fire out of battery. You can check your own Glock for this condition by making sure your pistol is unloaded, then manually pull the slide to the rear while you watch the barrel. As the barrel begins its downward movement, see if the trigger has been disconnected. Pull the trigger and sense if you feel the striker release. If your Glock's trigger will work the firing mechanism, you have demonstrated how this out of battery condition can occur. Check enough Glocks and you will see this problem rather frequently.

In case someone feels like I am picking on Glocks, I have also seen 1911's fire slightly out of battery. If you google, "1911 fire out of battery", there are plenty of hits.

Jumping Frog wrote:Perhaps an alternate way to phrase the question would be:

In a semi-auto pistol, how does a mechanical safety operate to assure the slide is fully closed before allowing the hammer or striker to release? In other words, how does it assure the pistol does not fire out of battery?

I see. This would technically be action-specific. If the OP is referring to a slidefire stock, there's no modification to the action of the firearm. If it's a standard single action AR-15, the rifle shouldn't fire unless the trigger has reset. If I'm not mistaken, the bolt has to close before the trigger resets. So it would have to lock the action before firing again. I don't have my AR on me, so I can't verify this myself. Any other input?

The sear actuates the hammer or firing pin, the device that prevents the gun from firing when the breech is not in battery is the disconnector.

Since the original question was posited about rifles, The answer is yes, maybe, or no, depending on the model you are looking at.

Most full auto rifles fire continuously while the trigger is pulled and do not lock closed, which can lead to instances of rounds being fired when the breech was not quite closed, say if the headspace is set wrong.

In semi auto rifles you usually won't be able to pull the the trigger fast enough after reset to worry about whether the breech locked.

Many submachineguns and some full auto rifles fire from an open breech, depending on the bolt's inertia to be enough of a lock.

As far as "slide fire" is concerned, I do not know the design, but since it is depending on the trigger resetting before firing again, I would also venture that the timing would allow the breech to lock fully in battery before triggering the next shot. Anything else would be very dangerous and the product should be removed from the market.

I have an AR slide fire stock. It only replaces the stock and grip. It does not change the internal trigger function or action. I have it on a 5.45 rifle. It has dumped 10 or more mags with no problem.

Of course, once you dump some mags for fun, that is about all there is to it.

Thanks for all the info. The more I learn the better and I fixed my spelling and terminology for the gunsmiths out there.

jimlongley wrote:.....
Most full auto rifles fire continuously while the trigger is pulled and do not lock closed, which can lead to instances of rounds being fired when the breech was not quite closed, say if the headspace is set wrong.
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The real AK-47 had the disconnector, it would not release the hammer unless the breech is closed.