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I've always been biased against the AR-15. It uses direct gas impingement and therefore is less reliable with low quality ammo that could clog the gas tube with residue. It has a tiny .223 caliber projectile that with shorter barrels and longer distances will not fragment and will have the wound characteristics of a .22lr. The lightweight projectile also lacks penetration. What is concealment only to someone being shot at with an AK is often cover for someone shot at with an AR-15. It is made of flimsy aluminum and plastic. If you change the trigger too many times, it will get loose and just fall out due to the steel trigger parts eroding the aluminum lower receiver. Finally, don't even get me started on the plastic receivers!

However, since the Dallas Pistol Club's monthly tactical rifle competition only allows .22lr semi-auto rifles, I initiailly bought a .22lr AK47 made by Armscor. It sucked. The manual is written by illiterates from the third world so I cannot take it apart to clean. This means the gun gets a bore snake for the barrel but the action has never been cleaned. The gun jams all the time because of this. It shot well when new, but it now sucks. GSG also has a .22lr AK47, but it is not adjustable for windage like a real AK is. Therefore, there are no satisfactory manufacturers of .22lr AK47's.

This means I had to buy a dreaded AR-15 or a Ruger 10-22. I saw the Youtube video of the Ruger 10-22 field strip and it was too complicated, so I bought the S&W M&P 15-22. It shoots really accurately. At 100 yards, with just the iron sights, my old eyes can shoot 8 inch groups, 4 inch groups at 50 yds, and 2 inch groups at 25 yds. I've mounted a CP Tactical open red dot holographic sight on it. It is real cheap and costed only $25 at Cabela's. The thing has a lot of parallax and the red dot is huge. Furthermore, if you are shooting at something small that's far away, the red dot will cover over the front sight post so that I cannot put the red dot on the object that I'm shooting at. This is REALLY annoying! Therefore, the red dot is only useful for shooting large (pie plate size) moving targets or stationary targets while you are moving. The red dot helps you get off that first accurate shot faster. Since shooting pie plates in a competition that involves running is what I plan on doing, I'm keeping the sight. However, I actually shoot more accurately at stationary targets with just the iron sights. I've cowitnessed the two sight systems so I can alternate between the two. As long as you choose your ammo carefully, the gun will not jam with CCI and Federal Auto Match. It jams like crazy with Remington Golden Bullets. The AK has no quad rails so I cannot add any lights, lasers, nor red dot holographic sights to it. The AR-15 has quad rails so I can add any modern shooter's aid to it. The adjustable stock makes it very ergonomic. It has zero recoil and is a joy to shoot. My wife, who used to be anti-gun picked it up and said, "Nice, it's really light weight. My gun!"

LOL.

Have you looked on youtube for Armscor AK22? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7EfDMrNSlGw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I like my M&P15-22. Mine has Magpul MBUS and a Vortex RDS. That said, I think you're overstating problems with the M4 and the 5.56 round. There are plenty of dead insurgents, shot dead in much rougher environmental conditions than DFW who would disagree with your analysis of the cartridge's lethality. Accuracy is superior, yada yada yada, and a dirty AK can and will jam too.

Plus, if you want a stronger round than the AK fires, you have to get a whole 'nuther rifle. With the AR, you pull two pins and swap out the upper for one in any of several other calibers. Heck, you can even mate a Bohica .50 BMG upper to your AR lower...... ......or, you get an AR10 with a base caliber of .308, pull 2 pins and mount uppers in .260 Remington, .300 Win Mag, and others.

The AK IS A GREAT weapon, and it needs no defense of its virtues. But it is not necessarily the best weapon. The Israelis gave up their version of it a long time ago, converted to the M16/M4 platform, and then finally developed their own weapon, the TVOR, chambered in 5.56 NATO. They could have gone with another caliber. They didn't.

In urban warfare where buildings are built by concrete and concert blocks (something like in Syria) neither AK rd or AR rds are useful. Bring on your Dushka, 50 BMG, 14.5 ZSU-2 or better a Shilka:

You misunderstand, TAM, I am agreeing with you. It IS a GREAT weapon. In order to get a better weapon, you have to pay several times as much and buy a bullpup. I'm currently shopping for a S&W M&P 15 Sport because I am so impressed with the S&W M&P 15-22. That doesn't make the AK a lesser weapon. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I like both the AK47 AND the AR-15, but my wife doesn't like shooting ANY guns except for 9mm glocks and the AR-15.

The Annoyed Man wrote:I like my M&P15-22. Mine has Magpul MBUS and a Vortex RDS. That said, I think you're overstating problems with the M4 and the 5.56 round. There are plenty of dead insurgents, shot dead in much rougher environmental conditions than DFW who would disagree with your analysis of the cartridge's lethality. Accuracy is superior, yada yada yada, and a dirty AK can and will jam too.

Plus, if you want a stronger round than the AK fires, you have to get a whole 'nuther rifle. With the AR, you pull two pins and swap out the upper for one in any of several other calibers. Heck, you can even mate a Bohica .50 BMG upper to your AR lower...... ......or, you get an AR10 with a base caliber of .308, pull 2 pins and mount uppers in .260 Remington, .300 Win Mag, and others.

The AK IS A GREAT weapon, and it needs no defense of its virtues. But it is not necessarily the best weapon. The Israelis gave up their version of it a long time ago, converted to the M16/M4 platform, and then finally developed their own weapon, the TVOR, chambered in 5.56 NATO. They could have gone with another caliber. They didn't.

Yeah, I watched the video, but the screws are stuck and I can't work them loose. Ugh.... Who the heck designs a gun that needs several different screwdrivers to take apart!? Third world illiterate arms designers, that's who.

MeMelYup wrote:Have you looked on youtube for Armscor AK22? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7EfDMrNSlGw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW, if anybody wants to trade $350 plus an Armscor AK47 in 22lr, 1 10 round mag, and 2 high capacity mags for a S&W M&P 15 Sport in north Texas, I'll be more than happy to meet you (round count is less than 50) Be aware, this is the worst gun I have ever shot because it is such a pain to take apart and clean. I am not strong enough to unscrew that dogone takedown screw.

I don't think I have ever seen side by side penetration tests of 5.56X45 versus 7.62X39. People always talk about penetration, but I would be curious what the difference really is. 5.56 is smaller, but it is also a good bit faster. Either round will likely penetrate more stuff than most people think.

Then there is the thought that a self-defense rifle really doesn't need much penetration as long as it penetrates flesh okay. I think 223 penetrating fewer layers of dry wall is considered a positive attribute.

A couple of former spec ops guys I know and quite a few Army and Marine grunts I've met from the recent uplesentries in the Middle East have told me that when a BG is shot with a 5.56 in the right place they fall down and don't get back up again. The same has been said about the 7.62x39 shoot them in the right place they go down and stay down. The 7.62 X 51 is a different story, close to the right place, and it works similarly. According to these guys the M16, M4 ares good to go into harm's way with and the AK is also GTG although it's a heavier gun and heavier ammo. One guy, a former designated marksman, told me the M14 is the rifle to have if weight isn't an issue.

If I were 40 years younger and playing in the sandbox I think there would be higher priority issues to be concerned about than what weapon platform I was using.

MoJo wrote:If I were 40 years younger and playing in the sandbox I think there would be higher priority issues to be concerned about than what weapon platform I was using.

You got that right, Mojo.........and if it was me, the first questions would be, what the heck am I doing here, and why?

I think if I was going to spring for an AK type rifle, I'd go for the AK74; but that would just be basically duplicating what I have in an AR, so.....

I can understand why someone would really like either the AR or AK system, but I have never understood the guys who knock the system they believe is inferior. I don't see that on this forum much, but on some others it is really crazy.

I have both AK and AR platform rifles and they both are excellent, battle proven rifles. There are things I like about each platform and really nothing that I think is overly bad about either. I do find that I shoot my AK more though as I can load it up with cheapo Wolf and Brown Bear ammo which I would never shoot through my Colt or Sig AR platform rifles. The AK buzzes through that stuff with no problem and I can save a little cash. I can honestly say, in a crises I could grab either platform rifle and feel comfortable that I had a good weapon.