TexasCHLforum.com

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:43 pm**

I received a NRA certifications renewal notice in today’s mail. I’m posting
the “Attention Notice” below. I’m interested in getting other CHL instructors
comments, since DPS has required most to receive a NRA Pistol certification
in order to continue teaching CHL classes etc. Personally:
I occasionally donate to NRA causes, in addition to maintaining membership,
I try to promote students to join the NRA, I have multiple NRA certifications.
I realize the NRA is our best chance for 2nd A defense on the national level.
I support the NRA. However:
I don’t particularly like being “required” to open and maintain any account
anywhere. And, Instructor Recertification will require “documented activity conducted since your
previous renewal”………. Does this apply to teaching NRA courses only? Because if it
does, looks like I will be in trouble with the NRA. I will not provide “documented activity”
of any kind regarding CHL classes to anyone but DPS. So, I guess it’s going to be adios to
the NRA for me, my family etc. in the near future.
Maybe it’s just the way I read the notice, but, it just kind of jerked my chain. I don’t want
to over-react, and I really don’t even have a problem with some kind of online recertification
(provided they don’t change terminology just to make a change….).
Thank in advance for any current CHL instructors chiming in on this.

ATTENTION: All NRA Certified Instructors are encouraged to renew their certifications
online at http://www.nrainstructors.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Effective August 1, 2014, ALL instructors will be required
to open and maintain an account on http://www.nrainstructors.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Commencing in January 2015,
renewal notices will no longer be “mailed” and Instructor Recertification will require
documented activity conducted since your previous renewal and satisfactorily completing
an online Instructor Refresher course.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:41 pm**

I just went online and renewed my NRA Instructor rating. All it asked for was a credit card for the $30 charge and it now shows me qualified until 7/2016. Pretty simple. I had no official NRA instruction activity since my instructor class.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:40 pm**

I understand. And my current renewal is good until 2016 too (2 years).

However, I'm concerned with the requirements AFTER Jan 2015.
"documented activity conducted since your previous renewal".....
Do they mean NRA specific or CHL specific (as in you are a current
instructor). I don't really teach NRA classes. CHL? Well, I won't
disclose any of that info.....except to DPS.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:30 pm**

You get credit for NRA classes when you are the lead instructor or an assistant instructor. The documentation is taken care of when the class report is submitted to NRA. The account you have to set up is a bit like the account you set up at DPS as an instructor.

Sheri told me at the renewal class they will be checking instructor NRA status when renewal time comes around.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:25 pm**

So, you're saying it HAS to be a NRA course of instruction? Kind of a "back door" way to get more
money. I'd rather them just raise the fee and be upfront. I guess the next question is, how many
CHL instructors actually teach NRA courses? I know quite a few instructors and NONE, nada, not a single
one teaches NRA courses. Many have been CHL instructors for years. And yes, I also know a couple of
guys that sometimes will do a NRA course, and they'll have 1 or 2 asst instructors help so everybody
gets their little share of NRA credit. I'm really not trying to knock the NRA. I understand not mailing
out materials saves money. But to change the system in a manner that seems to be designed only to
generate revenue on the backs of those that already support.....
not good.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:39 pm**

I don't have any direct information, but I'm not surprised at the requirements for 1) actual teaching; and 2) continuing education to retain your NRA Instructor Certification. This is a way to maintain consistency and quality in the teaching of NRA courses. Doing this will not raise revenue for the NRA and it will likely reduce revenue since some, perhaps many, instructors will not renew.

Again, I don't have first hand knowledge, but I feel certain the "actual experience" requirement will be limited to NRA courses. Teaching others like CHL classes will not help to maintain proficiency in teaching the NRA courses we are certified to teach. The NRA doesn't intend its Instructor certification to be a way to keep a CHL Instructor certification and not teach NRA classes. I just hope the requirement isn't to teach one or more of each discipline for which we are certified.

Chas.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:21 pm**

Thank you for the response. Ordering classroom materials, student fee etc should raise revenue as well as
the initial fee to join the NRA. I agree that there will be current instructors not willing to renew for whatever
reason. I did find some of the info in CHL class to be "crossover" info from the NRA course. (though cut to the bone
with the CHL reduction in required classroom hours). I believe the more knowledge an instructor has, be it via
a NRA course etc, the better the instructor has the potential to be. The instructor promoting 2nd A rights by
teaching, whether it be CHL or NRA course material. He is doing what the NRA is about (I think): education,
promoting/protecting 2nd A rights. I'm surprised the NRA doesn't support in this area. They sell insurance that does.
I'm not good with this. If I have to teach NRA courses in each of the areas I have a certification I will drop them all.
Not a threat. Me stopping NRA support won't matter to them one bit. Just a fact.
1) I actually do teach regular CHL classes 2) teaching gun classes is NOT my primary source of income nor do I have
the time to add a bunch of other classes to my schedule 3) I'd have no problem with a online renewal course as long as
it wasn't just NRA "busy work"
I'd hate to see good CHL instructors drop their NRA affiliation, stop teaching, stop promoting our 2nd A rights
simply because of this type of policy change. I'm sure most encourage students to join the NRA. Currently, I do.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:54 pm**

gemini wrote:Thank you for the response. Ordering classroom materials, student fee etc should raise revenue as well as
the initial fee to join the NRA.

You don't have to be an NRA Member to be an NRA Instructor or to take an NRA course.

gemini wrote:I believe the more knowledge an instructor has, be it via a NRA course etc, the better the instructor has the potential to be. The instructor promoting 2nd A rights by teaching, whether it be CHL or NRA course material. He is doing what the NRA is about (I think): education, promoting/protecting 2nd A rights. I'm surprised the NRA doesn't support in this area.

I agree that the more knowledge an instructor has the better instructor they will be, but that has nothing to do with the NRA wanting NRA Instructors to 1) teach NRA courses; and 2) obtain continuing education to retain NRA certification. You want the NRA to certify you as an instructor, then allow you to retain that certification for decades without teaching a single NRA course or taking any type of continuing education for NRA certification. That seems unreasonable. At some point, you will no more be qualified to teach NRA courses than someone who has never been NRA certified. Remember, carrying NRA Instructor Certification doesn't mean you attended an instructor class at sometime during your life. It means you are qualified to teach the NRA courses for which you are certified.

gemini wrote:If I have to teach NRA courses in each of the areas I have a certification I will drop them all. Not a threat. Me stopping NRA support won't matter to them one bit. Just a fact.

Okay, then don't renew your NRA certification. The fact is you want to keep your NRA Certification solely to meet the Texas requirement to keep your CHL Instructor Certification. Now you're mad that the NRA is doing something to make sure people with NRA Instructor Certifications are qualified to teach NRA courses.

gemini wrote:I'd hate to see good CHL instructors drop their NRA affiliation, stop teaching, stop promoting our 2nd A rights
simply because of this type of policy change. I'm sure most encourage students to join the NRA. Currently, I do.

While I can see how some people will not be able or willing to keep teaching CHL classes since the NRA is stepping up quality control, anyone who stops "promoting our 2nd A rights" because of this change has never been a true supporter anyway. They were doing it solely as a revenue source and they won't be missed.

Chas.

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:25 pm**

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
gemini wrote:Thank you for the response. Ordering classroom materials, student fee etc should raise revenue as well as
the initial fee to join the NRA.
You don't have to be an NRA Member to be an NRA Instructor or to take an NRA course. I would venture not many NRA instructors aren't members too.
gemini wrote:I believe the more knowledge an instructor has, be it via a NRA course etc, the better the instructor has the potential to be. The instructor promoting 2nd A rights by teaching, whether it be CHL or NRA course material. He is doing what the NRA is about (I think): education, promoting/protecting 2nd A rights. I'm surprised the NRA doesn't support in this area.
I agree that the more knowledge an instructor has the better instructor they will be, but that has nothing to do with the NRA wanting NRA Instructors to 1) teach NRA courses; and 2) obtain continuing education to retain NRA certification. You want the NRA to certify you as an instructor, then allow you to retain that certification for decades without teaching a single NRA course or taking any time of continuing education for NRA certification. That seems unreasonable. At some point, you will no more be qualified to teach NRA courses than someone who has never been NRA certified. Remember, carrying NRA Instructor Certification doesn't mean you attend an instructor class at sometime during your life. It means you are qualified to teach the NRA courses for which you are certified. Good points. So, we should renew or requalify for each certification.
gemini wrote:If I have to teach NRA courses in each of the areas I have a certification I will drop them all. Not a threat. Me stopping NRA support won't matter to them one bit. Just a fact.
Okay, then don't renew your NRA certification. The fact is you want to keep your NRA Certification solely to meet the Texas requirement to keep your CHL Instructor Certification. Now you're mad that the NRA is doing something to make sure people with NRA Instructor Certifications are qualified to teach NRA courses.
I'm not mad. But it's true, I did get the NRA Pistol Certification solely to meet the Tx Requirement to keep my CHL instructor Cert.

gemini wrote:I'd hate to see good CHL instructors drop their NRA affiliation, stop teaching, stop promoting our 2nd A rights
simply because of this type of policy change. I'm sure most encourage students to join the NRA. Currently, I do.
While I can see how some people will not be able or willing to keep teaching CHL classes since the NRA is stepping up quality control, anyone who stops "promoting our 2nd A rights" because of this change has never been a true supporter anyway. They were doing it solely as a revenue source and they won't be missed.
I didn't start teaching "solely as a revenue source". I feel that folks that teach gun classes are promoting the 2nd A rights. Cease teaching, and it's one less promoting 2nd A rights. Has nothing to do with being a "true supporter". There are lots of folks that support / promote the 2nd A that have nothing to do with the NRA.

We could pick at each other in endless posts. I won't, because I respect you and all you've done to help the CHL community. Again, I thank you for your responses. I do value your legal knowledge, legislative understanding and involvement in the shooting community. Thanks again.
Chas.

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:33 pm**

I received my CHL instructor certification in March 2014. I took the required NRA pistol instructor course prior and this thread has made be think of a question. Are we required to maintain our NRA certifications in order to maintain our CHL certification or was the NRA certification a one time deal? Also I don't recall them saying in class what the Instructor renewal process is. Can someone share what they know. Thanks.

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:49 pm**

Richardwa1` wrote:I received my CHL instructor certification in March 2014. I took the required NRA pistol instructor course prior and this thread has made be think of a question. Are we required to maintain our NRA certifications in order to maintain our CHL certification or was the NRA certification a one time deal? Also I don't recall them saying in class what the Instructor renewal process is. Can someone share what they know. Thanks.

As the law is currently written, you must be currently certified in order to renew your CHL Instructor Certification.

Chas.

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:53 pm**

Richardwa1` wrote:I received my CHL instructor certification in March 2014. I took the required NRA pistol instructor course prior and this thread has made be think of a question. Are we required to maintain our NRA certifications in order to maintain our CHL certification or was the NRA certification a one time deal? Also I don't recall them saying in class what the Instructor renewal process is. Can someone share what they know. Thanks.

Interesting question. The requirement is in section 411.190:

Sec. 411.190. QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTORS. (a) The director may certify as a qualified handgun instructor a person who:
(1) is certified by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement or under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, to instruct others in the use of handguns;
(2) regularly instructs others in the use of handguns and has graduated from a handgun instructor school that uses a nationally accepted course designed to train persons as handgun instructors; or
(3) is certified by the National Rifle Association of America as a handgun instructor.

Would completing an NRA pistol instructor class, but not renewing the certification, meet the requirement of (2) as long as you regularly teach?

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:53 pm**

MasterOfNone wrote:
Richardwa1` wrote:I received my CHL instructor certification in March 2014. I took the required NRA pistol instructor course prior and this thread has made be think of a question. Are we required to maintain our NRA certifications in order to maintain our CHL certification or was the NRA certification a one time deal? Also I don't recall them saying in class what the Instructor renewal process is. Can someone share what they know. Thanks.
Interesting question. The requirement is in section 411.190:
Sec. 411.190. QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTORS. (a) The director may certify as a qualified handgun instructor a person who:
(1) is certified by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement or under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, to instruct others in the use of handguns;
(2) regularly instructs others in the use of handguns and has graduated from a handgun instructor school that uses a nationally accepted course designed to train persons as handgun instructors; or
(3) is certified by the National Rifle Association of America as a handgun instructor.
Would completing an NRA pistol instructor class, but not renewing the certification, meet the requirement of (2) as long as you regularly teach?

If not for subpart 3) I would say yes. However, the specific controls over the general and the specific mention of NRA Certification and it being current is a major problem. Also, if the CHL course is the only course taught, then that is another problem as the CHL course has correctly been determined not to be a course "to instruct others in the use of handgun."

The law needs to change.
Chas.

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:34 pm**

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
MasterOfNone wrote:
Richardwa1` wrote:I received my CHL instructor certification in March 2014. I took the required NRA pistol instructor course prior and this thread has made be think of a question. Are we required to maintain our NRA certifications in order to maintain our CHL certification or was the NRA certification a one time deal? Also I don't recall them saying in class what the Instructor renewal process is. Can someone share what they know. Thanks.
Interesting question. The requirement is in section 411.190:
Sec. 411.190. QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTORS. (a) The director may certify as a qualified handgun instructor a person who:
(1) is certified by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement or under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, to instruct others in the use of handguns;
(2) regularly instructs others in the use of handguns and has graduated from a handgun instructor school that uses a nationally accepted course designed to train persons as handgun instructors; or
(3) is certified by the National Rifle Association of America as a handgun instructor.
Would completing an NRA pistol instructor class, but not renewing the certification, meet the requirement of (2) as long as you regularly teach?
If not for subpart 3) I would say yes. However, the specific controls over the general and the specific mention of NRA Certification and it being current is a major problem. Also, if the CHL course is the only course taught, then that is another problem as the CHL course has correctly been determined not to be a course "to instruct others in the use of handgun."

The law needs to change.
Chas.

Charles -- glad you added that last part. Up to then, you seemed at best -- neutral on the subject. I teach a Basic Pistol class, but it's not an official NRA class. People looking for firearm instruction are generally preparing to take the CHL class, so my pistol class is designed toward that end. I'm afraid if I have to also teach a periodic formal NRA class (and can find students for it), keep up my NRA certs, take NRA renewal classes/training, take DPS renewal classes/training -- there are starting to be too many hoops to jump through to justify continuing CHL instruction. Which I would sorely miss as I really enjoy it.

I don't know anybody more qualified to get the law changed than YOU!

Posted: **Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:57 pm**

sjfcontrol wrote:
I'm afraid if I have to also teach a periodic formal NRA class (and can find students for it), keep up my NRA certs, take NRA renewal classes/training, take DPS renewal classes/training -- there are starting to be too many hoops to jump through to justify continuing CHL instruction.

I don't believe there are any renewal classes/training for the NRA Instructor Certs are there? I believe you just need to ensure you pay the NRA every two years.

As far as teaching a formal NRA class, I'm sure that teaching a class for the Boy Scouts or some other organization every once in a while would be worth it to keep up the NRA Cert, which will allow you to keep the DPS Cert.

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