TexasCHLforum.com

This is an article written for Police Officers but it really pertains also to CHL holders after a shoot. The article is about uniformed Officers shooting plain clothes Officers and badge placement. What is sobering is the number of times Officers "shot" plain clothes Officer during training exercises.

"Some flat out deny they fired any mistaken rounds. But after running hundreds of officers through decision-making exercises in which at least one sudden target represents an out-of-uniform cop with a badge openly displayed, Sgt. Ward Smith knows the disturbing truth: Without awareness training, the average in-service officer will fire on the “friendly” form before realizing it’s a fellow LEO."

We must realize that the Officer is responding to "shots fired" and they do not know good guy from bad guy. In a split second decision, you can't fault the Officer for protecting his life.

http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/artic ... thes-cops/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is why when I'm off duty I still carry my badge in my pocket. If I ever had to use deadly force, I'll have my badge in my hand when the cops drive up. During a firefight I could see a plain cloths officer being mistaken as a threat. Know your target but I wonder if in this test the off duty LEO pointed a firearm in the direction of the responding officer.

Responding to shots fired, do these cops think they are supposed to mow everyone down carrying a gun? As a CHL holder, I is good to keep that in mind.

It is like the sentiment with trials, I would rather see criminals get away more often, than see innocents (off duty or joe public) get shot because cops are too intent on taking action and stopping the bad guys.

MechAg94 wrote:It is like the sentiment with trials, I would rather see criminals get away more often, than see innocents (off duty or joe public) get shot because cops are too intent on taking action and stopping the bad guys.

I do not believe the "friendly fire" shootings are primarily caused by an LEO wants to "stop the bad guys". I believe the stronger motivation is there is shooting underway and they are in fear of getting shot and wanting to make sure they survive the encounter with anyone who is a perceived as a threat.

nightmare69 wrote:This is why when I'm off duty I still carry my badge in my pocket. If I ever had to use deadly force, I'll have my badge in my hand when the cops drive up. During a firefight I could see a plain cloths officer being mistaken as a threat. Know your target but I wonder if in this test the off duty LEO pointed a firearm in the direction of the responding officer.

In a study by the Force Science Institute, it was discovered that officers coming upon an officer in plain clothes with a gun in one hand and a gun in the other often initially saw only the gun (visual focus on the threat) and didn't notice the badge until later.

Takeaway: Holster the gun before or as soon as other officers approach.

Excaliber wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:This is why when I'm off duty I still carry my badge in my pocket. If I ever had to use deadly force, I'll have my badge in my hand when the cops drive up. During a firefight I could see a plain cloths officer being mistaken as a threat. Know your target but I wonder if in this test the off duty LEO pointed a firearm in the direction of the responding officer.

In a study by the Force Science Institute, it was discovered that officers coming upon an officer in plain clothes with a gun in one hand and a gun in the other often initially saw only the gun (visual focus on the threat) and didn't notice the badge until later.

Takeaway: Holster the gun before or as soon as other officers approach.

This is my entire reason for posting the article. The posting has nothing to do with a LEO being careless or lack of training. It is just a reminder to anyone holding a gun in their hand and wearing street clothes. You might be 100% correct but the arriving LEO does not know you are a good guy and will take measures to protect himself and fellow officers. It is a fine line to walk. You don't want to holster the gun if you still perceive a threat but when the Police arrive, you better not be waving it around or making rapid moves.

From a distance - 7 yards, 10 yards, 15 yards, whatever - a gun in the hand is readily identifiable.

A badge can't be read at that distance and is only a shiny thing in the off-hand or on the belt of a guy holding a gun.

I see a LOT of TV cop shows where I think In real life the guy they're attacking would be justified in shooting because they frequently have NO uniforms and NO badge visible - and in a matter of a few seconds, I don't see how ANYONE could tell they're genuine cops. If real life is at all like this aspect of a TV show . . . no wonder there are friendly fire incidents.

howdy wrote:

Excaliber wrote:

nightmare69 wrote:This is why when I'm off duty I still carry my badge in my pocket. If I ever had to use deadly force, I'll have my badge in my hand when the cops drive up. During a firefight I could see a plain cloths officer being mistaken as a threat. Know your target but I wonder if in this test the off duty LEO pointed a firearm in the direction of the responding officer.

In a study by the Force Science Institute, it was discovered that officers coming upon an officer in plain clothes with a gun in one hand and a gun in the other often initially saw only the gun (visual focus on the threat) and didn't notice the badge until later.

Takeaway: Holster the gun before or as soon as other officers approach.

This is my entire reason for posting the article. The posting has nothing to do with a LEO being careless or lack of training. It is just a reminder to anyone holding a gun in their hand and wearing street clothes. You might be 100% correct but the arriving LEO does not know you are a good guy and will take measures to protect himself and fellow officers. It is a fine line to walk. You don't want to holster the gun if you still perceive a threat but when the Police arrive, you better not be waving it around or making rapid moves.

Another point to keep in mind is that if the gun is in your hand when police arrive, you're going to get to drop it on the pavement regardless of whether it's a $2000 1911 or a Glock.

A friend (HPD officer) shot and killed a Harris County SO narc in a strip club when he deputy turned toward him with a gun in his hand. It was a tragic situation.

Chas.