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I don't know the accuracy of this but it is interesting:

http://lzcenter.com/Myths%20and%20Facts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most seems accurate to my recollection. I believe the reason Viet Nam was different was one thing - television. Never before had the horrors of war been brought into the living room so immediately, and the Amercian public recoiled. It gave an overly powerful assist to the antis who are present in every war.

Seems mostly accurate. The only figure I would question in there is 16 million draft dodgers. I guess if you took a really broad definition of draft dodger that would include people who served in the National Guard like President Bush or who got academic deferments like President Clinton and VP Cheney, you might get to 16 million. I had a friend who joined the Navy to avoid the draft. I suppose you might consider him a draft dodger but I wouldn't. That said there were a lot of draft dodgers and they populated the antiwar movement.

I got my draft notice in July of '66. At that time, I was a 24 year old, full time university student with a pregnant wife. No, I did not serve in Viet Nam. Sometimes, I feel guilty about my 1966 married student deferment classification of IIIA, but it passes.

Seems accurate to me too. Everything I've read about Tet has said that had the media NOT turned the public against the war & start the downscaling of effort, the NVA could've been eliminated. They were not an effective fighting force for almost a year (IIRC) after Tet, but public opinion swayed decisions in the combat zone to keep them from going on the offensive & finishing off the NVA.

I had a student differment until the lottery. Then I had a relatively high lottery number which allowed me to marry and avoid military service.

Clinton clearly cheated the system. Bush did not, but obviously had some help.

I really did not know anyone my age who wanted to go to Viet Nam.

Most did everything they could to legally avoid going there.

Many joined ROTC. Of the college educated men I knew that actually served in Viet Nam
Only one saw real combat.

I knew only one man who has his name on the Wall. RIP. I think my Mom always felt guilty that her friend lost a son.
He was two years older than me. When you were born really determined if you went. He graduated and went to Viet Nam as a Lt The lottery saved me.

Young African Americans are disproportionately represented on the wall. They had fewer options.

If America goes to war it should be a declared war. We should then use everything in our power to win it quickly with as few American casualties as possible.

Otherwise stay out.

philip964 wrote:Young African Americans are disproportionately represented on the wall. They had fewer options.

This is simply not true. 13.5% of the US population at the time was African American. 12.5% of the names on the Wall are African Americans. 34% of African Americans volunteered for combat duty. Caucasians died in disproportionate numbers to their representation in the military.

philip964 wrote:If America goes to war it should be a declared war. We should then use everything in our power to win it quickly with as few American casualties as possible.

Otherwise stay out.

I doubt America will ever again declare war. It's much easier to commit the troops when emotions are running high and then yank them out when the mood turns. Winning wars is a thing of the past.

baldeagle wrote:

philip964 wrote:Young African Americans are disproportionately represented on the wall. They had fewer options.

This is simply not true. 13.5% of the US population at the time was African American. 12.5% of the names on the Wall are African Americans. 34% of African Americans volunteered for combat duty. Caucasians died in disproportionate numbers to their representation in the military.

philip964 wrote:If America goes to war it should be a declared war. We should then use everything in our power to win it quickly with as few American casualties as possible.

Otherwise stay out.

I doubt America will ever again declare war. It's much easier to commit the troops when emotions are running high and then yank them out when the mood turns. Winning wars is a thing of the past.

Then I assume my thoughts on race and the Viet Nam war was one of those myths. I guess the liberal media was alive back then, I just didn't recognize it.

The war became real to me my first day of college, seeing young men a few years older than me walking to class with canes.

I can't speak for the specific statistics quoted in the article, but as to the perception at home and the facts on the ground, he is spot on. I went to RVN trained to fight guys in black pajamas with AK's and SKS's,and booby traps. Being based in northern I-Corps, just a few miles from the DMZ, I never saw a VC the whole time I was there (they were "mostly" down south, but I'm sure there were "some" in our area). I was engaged with the BG's nearly every day. That was my job. To respond to requests for gunship support from any friendly unit in the neighborhood, and that neighborhood was huge. When it was "cold" in one sector, it was "hot" in another. I don't think I ever returned to base with a full load of ordinance, when I always left with one.

What I found was the well organized, well trained and well equipped NVA, not too different than the Soviet force I was trained earlier to engage. They had heavy weapons to beat the band, heavy machine gun, cannon, rockets, artillery, mortars, you name it, and they knew how to use them. They had heavy equipment, trucks,and dozers. We'd destroy a section of the Ho Chi Minh trail built into the side of a mountain, and days later it was fully repaired. And the NVA was all over the coutry, not just in the northern part. At home, the media depicted us as being whooped by a meager force of rebels in black pajamas. The media reporting was so far off the mark, it borders on ridiculous.

As for the draft dodger figure, I can't swallow that number. I believe anyone who had a legitimate deferment has nothing to do with being a draft dodger. I believe anyone that served in ANY capacity during that time, (NG, etc) served their country. I believe anyone, as in WWII, who served in industry producing the needed materials also served. Had I not been career military, married, in school, etc., I don't know what I would have done. Probably volunteered, as I was very pro military from a young age. But I can't say with a certainty. But I was already an "old man" by then. I was 28 at the time, married, two kids, and had 7 years in.

The US military did an outstanding job, so did the soldiers from other countries, i.e. S. Korea, and Australia. The ARVN Marines were fierce, as well a a select number of regular ARVN units. The military did not lose that war. We won. We fought to an agreed end to free our POW's, and left. The US gov't left the S. Vietnamese out in the cold, and in '75, it fell. The U.S. military had nothing to do with that. But of course we know, the media had us fleeing for our lives in "lost war." Baloney! We are re-living our history in Iraq and Afghanistan today.

Sorry for the rant.

philip964 wrote:Then I assume my thoughts on race and the Viet Nam war was one of those myths. I guess the liberal media was alive back then, I just didn't recognize it.

You're absolutely correct. The myth was that the poor and underprivileged, especially minorities, were over-represented in the ranks of the combat troops. The truth was that 2/3rds of the troops in Vietnam were volunteers, the various races were represented in rough proportion to their numbers stateside, the education level was higher than the general population and the vast majority of them, enlistees or draftees, served with honor and courage.

BTW, this is a subject of particular interest to me. I lost my cousin, Donald Carlson, in Vietnam, and I served in the US Navy from '68 to '74. I am involved with a group of vets named Vietnam Veterans for Factual History, and we are particularly focused on correcting the many myths and lies that have been told about the war. In fact we have a webpage that addresses 38 myths that we have identified (the work on that is still incomplete.)

I didn't want to get involved in this discussion because it's so contentious and because I'm so passionate about it, but I felt compelled to correct the record when you posted what you obviously believed to be true but was so utterly false.

And yes, the liberal media was very much alive and very much lying back then as well.

I shared that link on my FB page. The subject of Vietnam is of serious interest to me not because I was there (born in 1970) but because I see the mass media and "academia" wanting to do the same thing to those of us who either fought or served in the wars today. Fortunately, they haven't been as successful as they were against Vietnam veterans because of Vietnam veterans, if that makes sense. IMHO, the servicemembers who served in Vietnam fought TWO wars, one over there, and another here at home when they got back. A lot of important lessons have been learned because of the War in Vietnam, many for the better, but there are still so many more to go. I hope one day that those who sweated, bled and died over there get the credit that they truly earned, even if they aren't looking for it.

It seems to be accurate as I remember it on points of fact. I'm a little uncomfortable with the author's use of the term "draft-dodger" because he seems to use it to define anyone who didn't serve......and that is not accurate.

I did not serve, but I didn't dodge the draft either. I was 1A in 1970, and my lottery number was 339. They were drafting up into the low 200's as I recall. So my lottery number was high enough that I never got drafted, and I did not enlist. But I didn't "dodge"/avoid the draft. I thought about it, but I didn't. I didn't flee to Canada. I didn't burn my draft card. I just simply did not get drafted.

Draft Dodger? Hardly. I too was 1A in 1970 and I had a low draft number, But, I had a IIS (student) deferment. Not through any
political advantage or knowing anyone of importance. If i recall correctly 1970 was the last year to get a IIS . Anyway, at that time,
if you dropped out of school or flunked out etc, and had a low draft number ....you would be called up. Pronto.
I had 2 HS school mates and 1 dear family friend who were all KIA. I currently find it hard to even look at the "wall" without
my eyes watering uncontrollably.

As a veteran of the Vietnam era with many Vietnam vets among my acquaintances, I doubt seriously that many vets would consider someone whose lottery number never came up or who had a student deferment a draft dodger. I wouldn't even consider Bill Clinton a draft dodger, although he was borderline. The draft dodgers, in my mind, were the people who burned their draft cards and went to Canada (or other countries) to avoid the draft. I don't think there was anywhere near 16 million of them.

In the ignorance of youth I was itching to go. Had my sights set on being a Marine 2nd Lt. and platoon leader. Fortunately for me I suppose, the war ended before I graduated from high school. I still went into the military, but I didn't see combat.