TexasCHLforum.com

This one will get ya going! More non-lethal alternatives ...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/ferg ... owns-life/

I know this is somewhat in response to the Ferguson shooting, but I don't think the officer would have had time to actually put the thing on.

I'm all for less lethal options, but this just seems too impractical for it to be used effectively. Not something you want to be fumbling with when you have a 250lb man charging towards you. Let alone the possibility of muzzling your hand trying to put it on in a stressful situation.

mr1337 wrote:I know this is somewhat in response to the Ferguson shooting, but I don't think the officer would have had time to actually put the thing on.

I'm all for less lethal options, but this just seems too impractical for it to be used effectively. Not something you want to be fumbling with when you have a 250lb man charging towards you. Let alone the possibility of muzzling your hand trying to put it on in a stressful situation.

Less lethal and easily deployed just means another tool for compliance. Just like tasers, not a tool for saving lives, but for inflicting pain to make people do what you want.

If someone who outweighed me by 90 or so pounds, had just tried to take my gun to kill me with it, started moving away, and then turned and charged me again I wouldn't assume he wanted to apologize - I'd know he's going to try to kill me again and I'd respond accordingly.

The "bozo bullet" looks like another great idea from someone who has never had someone try to kill him, and doesn't understand the problem.

Trying to teach officers that their handgun is both a lethal and less than lethal device and how it should be accessorized and deployed in different circumstances is not a training task I'd like to be responsible for. The number of ways that trying to use this thing under life threatening stress could cause the situation to go catastrophically south are too many to list.

There are already enough issues where confusion between the handgun and the taser has resulted in unintended fatalities. These folks want to combine both functions in a single tool. What could possibly go wrong?

Well, I guess nothing's perfect, but it seems to me that taking the muzzle off target might encourage the hostile party to launch an attack. Taking the time to clip a gizmo on the slide would slow down the return to a good sight picture.

And messing with your muzzle is an iffy practice. Best to keep one's fingers away. Clipping a device on the slide of a pistol in Condition One is likely to expose the shooter to risk of injury, particularly if there is an abrupt change in the situation when the attacker gets the idea the gun is not immediately ready to fire, or sees the officer's attention has been directed away.

Add adrenaline to fingers at or in front of the muzzle, and it looks like more of a gimmick than a weapon. Nice idea to reduce violence, even when it's justified and necessary, but as a rube with no police experience I'd have to say the Bozo Bullet looks problematic to me.

Also, just wondering, do you think it would redirect any muzzle gasses back at the shooter, or at his nearby comrades?

I could see the lawsuits now if this was an approved device. What happens if a bullet penetrates the "bozo bullet" and goes out the other side? Now all of a sudden people will be screaming that it was supposed to be a non-lethal situation yet the shooter killed the "innocent" person so now somebody has to be blamed and punished monetarily.

Imagine having to open yet another holster to grab a device to stop somebody? Guess the 21 foot rule (Tueller Drill) goes out the window, with this device it better be a 60 foot rule............ There is no way I would support LE's use of such a dangerous device........

At some point, will criminals attack police officers more often or more quickly due to the knowledge that the officer won't use lethal force? In this case, the suspect can easily see that a less than lethal device is deployed.

Just thinking out loud I guess.

Greybeard wrote:This one will get ya going! More non-lethal alternatives ...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/ferg ... owns-life/

Just what every officer needs, something that makes deadly force not deadly. Nothing like giving the bad guy an extra chance or two to hurt the cop.

Cops have a baton (I think most still do), pepper spray, and tazers. Sounds to me like they have enough "non-letal" options. As far as I'm concerned, the crimes in Ferguson happened after the shooting.

I would like to see what the “hit” would look like in a block of gel fired from a 45.

AndyC wrote:"Ferguson police test less lethal ‘alternative’ gun that could have saved Mike Brown’s life" - yes, well, MIKE BROWN could have saved Mike Brown's life if he'd just put his hands up.

Well put. Just do what the officer says.

Excaliber wrote:If someone who outweighed me by 90 or so pounds, had just tried to take my gun to kill me with it, started moving away, and then turned and charged me again I wouldn't assume he wanted to apologize - I'd know he's going to try to kill me again and I'd respond accordingly.

The "bozo bullet" looks like another great idea from someone who has never had someone try to kill him, and doesn't understand the problem.

Trying to teach officers that their handgun is both a lethal and less than lethal device and how it should be accessorized and deployed in different circumstances is not a training task I'd like to be responsible for. The number of ways that trying to use this thing under life threatening stress could cause the situation to go catastrophically south are too many to list.

Dead on with both points!

Chas.

Don't see how this would have changed anything in Ferguson. Mike Brown was shot 5 or 6 times and didn't stop until the final bullet went into his head and killed him. Given that, a nonlethal first round would not have made any difference.

To me it will cause cops to deploy their hand guns sooner. They will fire the bozo bullet and more quickly fire that next lethal round.

I would hypothesize that you are more likely to shoot your hand putting that on in a highly stressful situation than it saving any lives.