TexasCHLforum.com

I've been thinking about the whole "gay marriage cake" thing. I am not a baker, nor do I produce any other tangible product, I just want to put this out there as a hypothetical. My question, as in the title, is are you required to produce a quality product? That is, if you were forced to bake said cake or have the state and/or Feds come down on you, what if you simply made a really lousy cake? Not one that was harmful, just one that was poorly made and tasted bad, like a really dry cake? What could the consequences be, from a legal standpoint, from such an action?

EDITED TO ADD:

I ask this question because a former NYC Councilwoman said she would force businesses to serve those Westboro folks. What if they came in and wanted a "glad soldiers died" cake? They are some pretty nasty folks, IMO.

A real soggy cake. One that is almost mush.

The State likes imposing the will of special groups of people on others and the media likes reporting it and goes to great lengths to invent things. They no longer deliver news they create it, stir things up and create turmoil. The State loves turmoil it justifies their existence and allows them to fix things that are not broken. Ferguson is a good example. Natural Law is at odds with the Law of Men. When men write Laws contrary to the natural rights of humans, other Laws will soon follow. Some Laws will try to correct a direct infringement of the god given rights of man and some laws will directly oppose those god given rights to support perceived injustices that cannot exist if the first god given right of man was left alone. Bread and Circuses for a Society of men without morals.

No. I wouldn't bake a cake in the form of a body part or any other form for any whack job out there. If an entity wishes me to bake this cake at gunpoint I will be pointing a gun back at them to peaceably refuse. I'll not waiver in my beliefs or give up my morals for any unjust Laws against my Natural Rights. Sounds a bit like forced servitude and I don't bake cakes...

Hmmmmm, looks like I grabbed the salt instead of the sugar...

Must not be a lot in the news today.

When dealing with protected classes of people there are lines you do not legally have to cross. Basically you must treat them just as you would any other customer and not discriminate in your methods.

In the example above, if you own a restaurant and the Westboro Church jerks walk in, you cannot refuse to serve them based on their religious beliefs. HOWEVER, if they are disruptive, start demanding special things that are not on the menu, etc, you do not have to comply.

The same goes for the bakery. If someone comes in and you make a cake for them and put on it Congratulations Bob and Mary, then you must also be willing to the same for Bob and Larry.

As long as the customer is not requiring something that you would not make for anyone else, then you can refuse and be legally within your rights. They may fuss and try to sue you, but you have a legal stance that they were requesting services outside of the normal things you provide.

Keith B wrote: If someone comes in and you make a cake for them and put on it Congratulations Bob and Mary, then you must also be willing to the same for Bob and Larry.

What about Bob, Larry and Mary? We wont even discuss Mary, Lisa, Rover and Spot.

Sorry. Having too much fun going down this rabbit hole...

rbwhatever1 wrote:

Keith B wrote: If someone comes in and you make a cake for them and put on it Congratulations Bob and Mary, then you must also be willing to the same for Bob and Larry.

What about Bob, Larry and Mary? We wont even discuss Mary, Lisa, Rover and Spot.

Sorry. Having too much fun going down this rabbit hole...

OK, let's be serious on the discussion and NOT take it where it shouldn't go. There is a good explanation here https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/the- ... appearance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and it sums up the basis on refusal of service

For the most part, courts have decided that the constitutional interest in providing equal access to public accommodations outweighs the individual liberties involved.

Bottom line, just because you don't believe in what they believe does not mean you can discriminate against them. This case where the KKK won a suit against a bakery is a prime example of how the courts will general rule on these types of issues http://tribuneherald.net/2013/08/23/kkk ... imination/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Keith B wrote:When dealing with protected classes of people there are lines you do not legally have to cross. Basically you must treat them just as you would any other customer and not discriminate in your methods.

In the example above, if you own a restaurant and the Westboro Church jerks walk in, you cannot refuse to serve them based on their religious beliefs. HOWEVER, if they are disruptive, start demanding special things that are not on the menu, etc, you do not have to comply.

The same goes for the bakery. If someone comes in and you make a cake for them and put on it Congratulations Bob and Mary, then you must also be willing to the same for Bob and Larry.

As long as the customer is not requiring something that you would not make for anyone else, then you can refuse and be legally within your rights. They may fuss and try to sue you, but you have a legal stance that they were requesting services outside of the normal things you provide.

So I can't refuse anyone anything because of THEIR religious beliefs, but THEY can force ME to do something against MY religious beliefs.

This is what is wrong with our legal and moral beliefs in this country and world.

You bake a cake, just because you don't stock 2 groom toppers is not your problem, and sorry can't deliver I am busy that day with another event(sleeping in).

anygunanywhere wrote: So I can't refuse anyone anything because of THEIR religious beliefs, but THEY can force ME to do something against MY religious beliefs.
This is what is wrong with our legal and moral beliefs in this country and world.

Get in line serf and go bake that order of Jihadi cupcakes celebrating the gains of the caliphate for your neighbor lest you lose your Freedom.
Use a really tasty grease so they don't stick to the pan. If one were to burn them one might be judged against in a court of Law as a cupcake saboteur violating someone else's Religion, beliefs, way of life, orientation, or thoughts. Yours apparently don't mean squat when it comes to Businesses, Profits and Taxable goods & services that define your short existence on this planet...

This is the only reason I don't bake cakes. Not worth the turmoil.

[quote="Keith B"] OK, let's be serious on the discussion and NOT take it where it shouldn't go.

I already apologized for taking it where it shouldn't go! And no I wasn't serious. Some things are just to ludicrous to be serious about.

That article you linked from the Tribune Herald about 3 Georgia Judges finding a black American baker guilty of discrimination for not baking a cake for a KKK birthday ceremony really didn't happen. It was satirical. Give it another few years the way we are heading and it might happen...

http://ethicsalarms.com/tag/elaine-bailey/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are some exemptions; doctors that are pro-life are exempted from doing sterilizations, placing IUD's or abortions. At least for now.

anygunanywhere wrote:

Keith B wrote:When dealing with protected classes of people there are lines you do not legally have to cross. Basically you must treat them just as you would any other customer and not discriminate in your methods.

In the example above, if you own a restaurant and the Westboro Church jerks walk in, you cannot refuse to serve them based on their religious beliefs. HOWEVER, if they are disruptive, start demanding special things that are not on the menu, etc, you do not have to comply.

The same goes for the bakery. If someone comes in and you make a cake for them and put on it Congratulations Bob and Mary, then you must also be willing to the same for Bob and Larry.

As long as the customer is not requiring something that you would not make for anyone else, then you can refuse and be legally within your rights. They may fuss and try to sue you, but you have a legal stance that they were requesting services outside of the normal things you provide.

So I can't refuse anyone anything because of THEIR religious beliefs, but THEY can force ME to do something against MY religious beliefs.

This is what is wrong with our legal and moral beliefs in this country and world.

My thoughts explicitly, and I used to bake, and decorate, cakes. I will say that I never knowingly turned out a poor product, but that one's attitude can have a deleterious on the final result. My wife had a student that was just so exited about the possibility that I would make a cake for her OBNOXIOUS daughter, that I was pressed unwillingly into doing it. I had to bake three cakes to get one that was even acceptable, much less up to my best standards. The result was less than awesome after decoration, but the obnoxious kid hardly noticed anyway.

The top one is some of my better work, my wedding to my second wife, got it right the first try, the other is Amy's cake, which has several cheats on it.

Keith B wrote:When dealing with protected classes of people there are lines you do not legally have to cross. Basically you must treat them just as you would any other customer and not discriminate in your methods.

In the example above, if you own a restaurant and the Westboro Church jerks walk in, you cannot refuse to serve them based on their religious beliefs. HOWEVER, if they are disruptive, start demanding special things that are not on the menu, etc, you do not have to comply.

The same goes for the bakery. If someone comes in and you make a cake for them and put on it Congratulations Bob and Mary, then you must also be willing to the same for Bob and Larry.

Keith IANAL but have been following this story closely. I dont believe the above is true in Texas. Homosexuals are not a protected class under the federal Civil Rights Act. Texas (like a few other states) does not have any laws beyond this. There are a handful of cities that have ordinances that do protect homosexuals.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/05/29/gay- ... -1E.mailto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On a personal note I have zero problem with any class of people but I firmly a business should be able to refuse service for any reason they like.