TexasCHLforum.com

Hey guy, I've been quiet on here for a while, mostly watching and reading, but I've been around. I did have a question for some of you guys, especially you LEO's out there who do part time security gigs for places.

I try to keep anonymous on here, but I have in the past while taken a job as a business manager for a San Antonio area Venue. The current security is off duty police officers paid cash for each day they show up. For starters, I'm not a big fan of paying cash for security. Secondly, the current security have disrespected me, and not even no-call no-showed since I've started. Quite frankly, they think they're replaceable, but to me, they are expendable.

I would like to hire security, but I would like to have a written contract that states what there pay is to be, when they're supposed to be on site, and what they're allowed to do, and rules we wish for them to enforce if applicable.

I would prefer to hire off duty deputies of city cops if possible, due to my personal loyalties, but I will resort to level III guards from a private security company.

What all do I have to have and do to hire some deputies I guess is my real question? Paperwork?

I normally operate three days a week, Wed, Sat, and Sun. I only need one deputy a day, except for Saturday which is two or three depending on what I have going on. Thanks for reading guys, I hope to learn something from ya'll soon.

"and rules we wish for them to enforce"
Not sure what rules you are talking about, but most departments are very strict about off duty officers not enforcing "house rules".

Just put up a big "no breaking the rules" sign.

jmra wrote:"and rules we wish for them to enforce"
Not sure what rules you are talking about, but most departments are very strict about off duty officers not enforcing "house rules".

^^ This.

Most departments I know of do not allow any enforcement of "house rules". You could probably start by calling the appropriate department with jurisdiction and ask about the process for hiring off-duty LEO as security. I would imagine their PIO might be a good place to start or simply ask someone from the department. Many will know who coordinates their off-duty. Where I used to work, a list of potential jobs was maintained and people could sign up based on their schedule, etc. with people rotating in and out for jobs with extended requirements that ran over days / months for traffic control, construction, etc. The payment for services went to the dept / coordinator who then paid the officers appropriately based on their sign-ups on the list.

Yep cops can't do house rules like no drinks, no outside food, dress codes, or even moderating conduct that does not rise to the level of nuisance or criminal. There have been cases in Texas where off duty cops have done so and resulted in significant judgements against the entity the cops were working for at the time. Being in uniform and a police officer when they ask or tell someone to do, or not do something, then they are giving the obvious impression that they are acting under force of law and that you are required to comply. The problem comes when there is no legal justification for that order. If they were not working but just walking thru could they give that same order? If not they have violated the persons rights and since they were working for a private entity that business is liable. Now once someone with authority has requested someone do something then a law enforcement officer can toss them or what have you but the cop cannot initiate the encounter.

The easiest way to deal with the cops is to get one to work as coordinator. Depending on Dept rules he may make a bit more or get a few dollars commision but often they will do it just so they can have first call on the shifts to make sure they get off duty work. You set the rules and what you want the cops to do and you let him deal with scheduling and making sure the cops know what to do. If they call off then he is the one who has to fill the spot and the guy who no showed would be messing with a fellow cop not just you or some very part time job. Doesn't have to be a guy with rank but you want him to have a few years on the job.

jmra wrote:"and rules we wish for them to enforce"
Not sure what rules you are talking about, but most departments are very strict about off duty officers not enforcing "house rules".

I am well aware of that jmra, but it seems to me that you give too much credit to all officers. As some of the current officers I have, I have to inform them to NOT try and enforce "house rules" as you call it. I have what I enforce, and they are there to deal with it when they are actually needed.

KD5NRH wrote: Just put up a big "no breaking the rules" sign.

Haha, very funny. We have are CHL's for a reason, people don't obey the rules.

gthaustex wrote:Most departments I know of do not allow any enforcement of "house rules". You could probably start by calling the appropriate department with jurisdiction and ask about the process for hiring off-duty LEO as security. I would imagine their PIO might be a good place to start or simply ask someone from the department. Many will know who coordinates their off-duty. Where I used to work, a list of potential jobs was maintained and people could sign up based on their schedule, etc. with people rotating in and out for jobs with extended requirements that ran over days / months for traffic control, construction, etc. The payment for services went to the dept / coordinator who then paid the officers appropriately based on their sign-ups on the list.

I am out by very minor departments, and a few of whom I've talked to, have never performed off duty gigs because of one of the larger close by departments taking over all of the gigs. Hence why I am bringing it up here.

Eellis wrote: Yep cops can't do house rules like no drinks, no outside food, dress codes, or even moderating conduct that does not rise to the level of nuisance or criminal. There have been cases in Texas where off duty cops have done so and resulted in significant judgements against the entity the cops were working for at the time. Being in uniform and a police officer when they ask or tell someone to do, or not do something, then they are giving the obvious impression that they are acting under force of law and that you are required to comply. The problem comes when there is no legal justification for that order. If they were not working but just walking thru could they give that same order? If not they have violated the persons rights and since they were working for a private entity that business is liable. Now once someone with authority has requested someone do something then a law enforcement officer can toss them or what have you but the cop cannot initiate the encounter.

Exactly, and I know this Eellis, but certain officers refuse to understand this concept. As I can Imagine you know, not all cops understand where there authority ends, as there is a number whom believe it does not have an end. This is one of my problems, and why I am looking to find another department to go through. I just wanted to know what I needed on my side as far as hiring goes, and if there was any sort of paperwork I should draft up, such as a contract.

Eellis wrote: The easiest way to deal with the cops is to get one to work as coordinator. Depending on Dept rules he may make a bit more or get a few dollars commision but often they will do it just so they can have first call on the shifts to make sure they get off duty work. You set the rules and what you want the cops to do and you let him deal with scheduling and making sure the cops know what to do. If they call off then he is the one who has to fill the spot and the guy who no showed would be messing with a fellow cop not just you or some very part time job. Doesn't have to be a guy with rank but you want him to have a few years on the job.

Yeah, very true. I'm waiting for a call back from an old Chief friend of mine I'm hoping can do exactly that, and maybe send him a set amount, and let him dish out the cash to his officers that work it. I kind of have the same thing currently going, but that "coordinator" happens to think he's hot stuff, and is asking for more money a night, but sometimes walks off the job and disappears. Completely unacceptable I know, but I don't have anybody else lined up, and I haven't even gotten a phone call back from any of the security companies or Rent-A-offdutycop companies. It's starting to grow under my skin.

Anybody hear currently an eligible peace officer looking for off duty work out east of San Antonio a ways?


[Edited for formatting]

How Far East? Seguin? Cuero? I have a BIL who is with a SD south of Austin and they work off duty at a few places. Think the Sherriff has to authorize though so depends on how far from the proverbial flagpole you are.

DevilDawg wrote:How Far East? Seguin? Cuero? I have a BIL who is with a SD south of Austin and they work off duty at a few places. Think the Sherriff has to authorize though so depends on how far from the proverbial flagpole you are.

I forgot to get back, but I got with some people on it. It's working out great so far! My locations was a major issue finding somebody though.