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Hello everyone.

I am a member of our city's Citizens on Patrol program. The policy of the city is that patrolers with CHLs are not allowed to have a firearm in their car while patrolling.

I am of the mindset that if I'm driving around slowly in neighborhoods at 2am, that's exactly when I want to be armed. What are your thoughts on the matter? What would you do?

Thanks for your input.

You would be kicked out of the program. Do not do it.
Resign from patrolling is always an option.

Knowing that their policies forbid possessing a firearm while patrolling, why would you ask if it would be ok? It's not ok.

I would resign from the program, saying why.

Have a little integrity.

I'm so happy someone posted on this topic. I don't know why I didn't earlier.

I was member of CAST for my local PD citizen assistance support team

they had the same no carry policy. i quit only after a few patrols alone. I knew i could better protect my family and myself if i was armed and at home than giving away my free time to do house checks and gives handicap parking tickets

driving around in a makred cast unit was fun but putting yourself out there unarmed was not

if you want to play cop become a reservist, a real gun and badge non paid commissioned leo

If you are going to agree to be a part of their program, you need to follow their rules. It's very simple.

You dont need to belong to an organization to be a good neighbor. Quit then drive or walk on your own.

suthdj wrote:You dont need to belong to an organization to be a good neighbor. Quit then drive or walk on your own.

The Abilene PD Chief said he wanted the neighbor hood watch to be eyes and ears for the PD. Unarmed eyes and ears.

Personally, I can no longer ride to the sound of the guns as I used to do. I am as good with a pistol as I ever was. I work with my city's Citizen's Police Academy and support the PD in ways that do not require disarming. I do what I can do best.

This topic was covered well a few years ago: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38861&hilit=citizen

I live in the same neighborhood as the OP for the 2010 thread, and we have a robust Citizen's on Patrol program here. We have 933 homes in our HOA, and our patrollers actively drive through the neighborhood - more often during the day while folks are at work, rather than at 2am, as you suggested.

My wife and I have told our coordinator that we'd be happy to participate, but won't do so as long as the 'disarm for CHL holders' rule is in place. So...we don't do it.

Now, they cannot (by force of law) require you to disarm. Their guidelines do not hold the same legal weight as a 30.06 sign, for instance. But, if you're going to be part of the program, then obey the rules you agreed to. For my wife and me, that means we don't participate.

Thank you for the input.

My viewpoint is that it's highly unlikely that anyone would find out an individual was carrying unless he or she had to draw their firearm. Surely they would only do that if it was necessary (their life was in immediate danger). What's the worst that would happen? Get kicked out of the program for breaking a rule? It's better than being killed by some punk who targeted you for having a magnet on your car.

As for me, I only patrol in the day and we live in a good neighborhood. The worst that happens is an iPad gets stolen once in a while. I feel safe driving around unarmed. I just wondered what others thought.

I know this is going to cause an argument but if we can get though the nastiness as quick as possible so we can answer the question.

How is this different then Whataburger saying no OC?

Flatulus wrote:Thank you for the input.

My viewpoint is that it's highly unlikely that anyone would find out an individual was carrying unless he or she had to draw their firearm. Surely they would only do that if it was necessary (their life was in immediate danger). What's the worst that would happen? Get kicked out of the program for breaking a rule? It's better than being killed by some punk who targeted you for having a magnet on your car.

As for me, I only patrol in the day and we live in a good neighborhood. The worst that happens is an iPad gets stolen once in a while. I feel safe driving around unarmed. I just wondered what others thought.

If you find you just can't follow the rules of an organization, why would you spend time working with and for that organization or putting yourself in a position where you feel you must break the rules?

I am a member of the local CoP program and I have explicitly told the coordinator that my volunteer hours would be extremely limited because of that policy. He understands, somewhat agrees and points out that it was put in place by the Chief and the department's legal eagles for liability reasons.

Nothing stopping me from going about my daily life and calling to report suspicious behavior or other activities.

In larger cities, organized Neighborhood Watch programs sometimes are covered by local PDs, like, legally and insurance wise covered. Obviously, a Citizens On Patrol program where you are driving an unmarked city vehicle, you are completely under their rules at that point, and failure to follow those rules can be extremely expensive for you. I would quit those... yesterday.

If you are just working with your HOA, are not in city vehicles, and the city is not covering your actions with some sort of insurance or liability policy, then I'd ignore the rules.

As far as I am concerned, I would never join these organizations. If I felt the need to go out and patrol my neighborhood, then I would just get out there and do it with a rifle. I have a HT radio opened up for CAP, so I can talk on PD frequencies if I ever had to, but most places a cell phone and 911 will do much better.

I refuse to disarm for anything these days.

This is exactly why I won't volunteer for the program.

If I wanted to work as a cop for free, I would do the TCLEOSE certs and sign on with my county as a reserve deputy. I don't want to be a "kind of" cop. Most of the folks I've met in my town's Citizens Patrol are young people getting experience before they study criminal justice in college or try to get into a police academy.

ScottDLS wrote:If I wanted to work as a cop for free, I would do the TCLEOSE certs and sign on with my county as a reserve deputy. I don't want to be a "kind of" cop. Most of the folks I've met in my town's Citizens Patrol are young people getting experience before they study criminal justice in college or try to get into a police academy.

Over the years, we get a lot of 'repeat threads', where the same topic is discussed anew. This is one of them, and (as has happened previously), this one has devolved until the conversation suggests that people want to 'play cop'. It has happened in the past: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38861.

No, ScottDLS, you didn't specifically say that in this thread, but the conversation is heading in that direction so I'd like to nip it in the bud.

Nobody is suggesting being a cop, or a kind of cop, or any of that. It's just a neighborhood program which allows people to drive around and report suspicious activity that may take place. The demographics of our particular neighborhood program is disproportionately staffed by senior citizens with nothing but time on their hands during the daylight hours - so they volunteer to patrol for an hour or two a month (some more than others, of course). Very few of the participants have either the time or the ability to get their TCLEOSE certs, but they want to contribute to the safety of their community in an organized program.

Suggesting that any of them are wannabe cops (or any other designation) needlessly demeans the fact that they just want to help in a small way. None of them is expected to intervene, and I doubt any of them plan to.

By accepting the HPD sponsorship, the neighborhood is granted permission to post signs reminding outsiders that the homes are being watched actively by neighbors (instead of passively via nosy neighbors through kitchen windows), and the formality of the program makes it easier for the neighborhood to recruit more volunteers.

However, since I won't volunteer for a program that, by its very nature, will require me to break its rules in order to participate (because I'm not going to disarm), I choose not to do so. But that in no way lessens the value of the service that my neighbors provide to us. I just get irritated when folks suggest they're playing cop - so please forgive me if I've upset the apple cart here.