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Pink Pistols versus Gay Pride

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:32 am
by KBCraig
As a friend commented in another forum, "Poor [deleted] had to deal with homophobia and hoplophobia at the same time." :sad:

Article URL

Security Agent ejects gay man from Pride Northwest for legal open carry of firearm

June 28, 2007 -- /prbuzz/--

On Sunday, June 17, 2007, Lonnie Wilson, founder of Pacific Northwest Open Carry, attended Pride events in Portland while openly displaying a firearm on his belt. Wilson had discussed this with police and with event officials beforehand, to make certain they understood that open carry was his right and his intent to exercise this right was political speech to illustrate this right to the Portland Police Bureau, who repeatedly insisted on harassing openly-carrying citizens in defiance of the state law.

"I went into the Pride event for at least two hours, carrying openly, and no one complained," said Wilson. "I even walked directly in front of several police officers, and none of them said anything, not even to check my permit status. There was no problem."

As far as Wilson knew, there was no problem at all until he left the premises for dinner and attempted to return. At this time, he was stopped by Thomas Ford of Crowd Management Services (CMS) Security. This company provides security for many large events around the Portland area. Ford contacted Stef-Anie Wells, President of Pride Northwest on Wilson's behalf, but was told "we would prefer he not to come back in and I will stand behind that decision." Ford then ejected Wilson from the event.

Wilson has since had email contact with Ms. Wells, in some effort at diplomacy. The responses have been less than diplomatic.

"Wow you have no clue to the Trauma that you have caused some people at pride by asserting your 'rights'. Did you once stop to think that at least 50% of the queer population has had death threats made upon them, (sic)" wrote Wells. "or that you might traumatize a former student of Thuston High School, I know I didn't!" Wells is referring to the school shooting event at Thurston High School on May 20, 1998, when Kipland "Kip" Kinkel, who was later diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, killed two of his classmates and wounded 25, after murdering both of his parents.

The Pink Pistols denounces the actions of Pride Northwest and CMS Security in ejecting Mr. Wilson for exercising his rights under the law. "While the President of Pride Northwest is entitled to her opinions," says Gwen Patton, International Media Spokesperson for the Pink Pistols, "Ms. Wells needs to learn the fundamental difference between opinion and fact."

Wilson, and later the group that he formed, has been engaged in a project since late 2005 to urge local police agencies to issue training advisories to their officers on the legality of open carry. Specifically in Oregon, it is legal to open carry in one foot and in one's car without a license under state law. However, the Oregon Legislature gave limited power to cities and counties to disallow carry of loaded firearms (open or concealed is not distinguished) unless one is statutorily exempted. Those who are licensed to carry concealed handguns are exempted, and there is no requirement for the firearm to be concealed to be considered exempted. The licensing of the person by itself is an exemption. Portland is one of the cities that took advantage of this power.

To date, advisories have been issued in Washington State by the King County Sheriffs, Bellevue, Des Moines, Federal Way, Lynnwood, Kent, and Black Diamond. In Oregon, Beaverton has also issued training advisories as to the legality of open carry. The city of Portland have yet to issue such a training advisory, despite several months of warnings by Wilson telling Portland, both via the Police Bureau and the City Attorney's Office, that the intimidation and threatening against lawful open carriers (who possess CHL's) will not be tolerated. Wilson cites this reluctance as the primary reason for his open carriage of a firearm at Pride Northwest, to assert his rights under the state law. But Pride Northwest did not appear to care about Wilson's rights, and demanded he conceal it or leave. Since concealing the weapon would have been contrary to his purpose of political speech, Wilson departed, despite the fact that the ejection may not have been lawful due to the location's nature as a public park.

But why carry a firearm in the first place? "I've been a victim of anti-gay violence, death threats, the works," says Wilson. "Ask yourself another question: Who tends to commit anti-gay violence and make death threats against gays for being what they are? It certainly isn't members of the GLBT community, it's criminal sadists who hate us for what we are and therefore want to torture us for merely existing."

Wilson then referred to the brutal and unprovoked in Seattle's Capitol Hill neighborhood June 10 attack upon Jason Mancillas, where a gang of up to six men jumped him and his boyfriend near Neighbours Nightclub, knocked him to the ground, then beat and kicked Mancillas, causing lacerations, bruises to his face and body, a black eye and a wound to his head. "It's these same kinds of bigots who make attack runs into Seattle's Capitol Hill and Portland's Stark Street to attack the queer community," Wilson says. It is Wilson's opinion that a lawfully-owned and carried firearm is a reasonable and appropriate self-defense tool to protect himself and his loved ones against such violence, and that, under some circumstances, open carry of the firearm is more appropriate by members of the GLBT community is better than concealed carry, for deterrent value.

"Mr. Wilson is a gay man who has been targeted for violence based upon his orientation," says Patton. "It is entirely in keeping with the principles of the Pink Pistols for Mr. Wilson to wish to avail himself of his rights to defend himself with a legally owned and carried firearm. And while the Pink Pistols typically advocates concealed carriage, open carry is still a viable option when performed lawfully."

The Pink Pistols is the largest national organization for the self-defense of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered persons with legally-owned firearms, and has chapters in both the United States and Canada.

CONTACT INFORMATION
International Media Spokesperson
Gwendolyn S. Patton
media@pinkpistols.org

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:48 am
by frankie_the_yankee
This illustrates why I advised 1talltxn as I did (i.e. not to open carry on his bike trip).

There are quite a few states where open carry is technically legal. But because almost no one does it, most people, including cops, are not aware of it.

So if you open carry, you are very likely to get unwanted attention from the police.

Now if that's what you want to do, fine. But if someone wants to have a pleasant bike trip, they should save the "crusading" for another time.

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:05 am
by anygunanywhere
frankie_the_yankee wrote:This illustrates why I advised 1talltxn as I did (i.e. not to open carry on his bike trip).

There are quite a few states where open carry is technically legal. But because almost no one does it, most people, including cops, are not aware of it.

So if you open carry, you are very likely to get unwanted attention from the police.

Now if that's what you want to do, fine. But if someone wants to have a pleasant bike trip, they should save the "crusading" for another time.
Yankee,

You base your assumptions on what you have read on the internet.

Have you ever been to a state that has open carry and tried it?

If you have, good for you.

If not, try it.

I have and I will again. Open carry is not a big deal where it is legal because the vast majority of people DO NOT CARE and mind their own business.

Yes there are LEO issues even where OC is legal, but there are just as many issues where OC is illegal and CC is.

Most of the discussions on this board and other RKBA based forums are because there are issues.

I have friends in OC states and they do OC occaisionally, but prefer CC for a myriad of reasons.

Now, for someone who has posted that you would support the legalization of OC you sure are not convincing me. I support any, and I do mean any effort to unleash my infringed RKBA including OC of automatic weapons if I so desire. I have been accused of being an absolutist, but that is what the 2A says.

Your highlighting your issues with OC, in my not so humble opinion, is bordering on a Zumbo-like attack. All you have to say is that you support OC and are not opposed to anyone else doing it because if they do it is none of your business, just like if the CC.

Sorry for the hijack, Kevin.

Anygun

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:39 am
by TX Rancher
anygunanywhere wrote:
frankie_the_yankee wrote:
Your highlighting your issues with OC, in my not so humble opinion, is bordering on a Zumbo-like attack. All you have to say is that you support OC and are not opposed to anyone else doing it because if they do it is none of your business, just like if the CC.
Anygun
:iagree:


In regards to the article, Ms Wells sounds like a real piece of work. The article also makes Portland sound anti-gun. Anyone know if that's true?

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:44 am
by frankie_the_yankee
anygunanywhere wrote: You base your assumptions on what you have read on the internet.
The above was posted on opencarry.com, which others have cited as a "resource" in this area of discussion. It has the ring of truth to it. I believe it to be true and verifyable.
anygunanywhere wrote: Have you ever been to a state that has open carry and tried it?

If you have, good for you.
Absolutely. Particularly in the Phoenix, AZ metro area. AZ is probably the most open carry friendly state in the country. They have had it for so long it is fully accepted as an "Arizonan" thing to do.

I experienced no problems whatsoever from LE, even when visiting financial institutions like banks, an AMEX office, etc.

Of course, I only saw one other person in a week's time who was openly carrying in Phoenix. So I believe that even there it is not widely practiced.

But I also experienced a massive sense of not having tactical surprise in an episode in a crowded quickie mart on the bad side of town. I would have been much more comfortable concealed, but since AZ would not recognize my RI permit (which is what I had at the time), I was stuck with open carry or no carry.
anygunanywhere wrote: I have and I will again. Open carry is not a big deal where it is legal because the vast majority of people DO NOT CARE and mind their own business.
1) To get the full experience, do it in an urban area, preferably in places where a lot of street/gangsta types hand out. And don't bother using a retention holster. They are too bulky to be comfortable, and heck, there's no increased risk so what are you worried about, right?

2) OC is a very big deal in many places where it is legal, especially in urban areas. Go to opencarry.com and read about all of the places where people legally carrying openly are harassed. Places like Alexandria and Norfolk Virginia, for instance. Or Harrisberg, PA.
anygunanywhere wrote: I have friends in OC states and they do OC occaisionally, but prefer CC for a myriad of reasons.
NO KIDDING!!!!! I wonder what those "myriad of reasons" are? I'll bet they are a lot like mine. And look at all the gas I am getting here!
anygunanywhere wrote: Now, for someone who has posted that you would support the legalization of OC you sure are not convincing me.
Tell you what. When an OC bill is introduced here in TX, I'll cc you with my letter to the editor in support of it. Just because I think it's dumb doesn't mean that I am opposed to people having the legal right to do it.

After all, people can legally watch "Survivor", right? :lol:
anygunanywhere wrote: I support any, and I do mean any effort to unleash my infringed RKBA including OC of automatic weapons if I so desire. I have been accused of being an absolutist, but that is what the 2A says.
Accused? I'd say "convicted" or maybe "confessed" is more like it. :lol: (Hey! Relax! That's a JOKE, man!)
anygunanywhere wrote: Your highlighting your issues with OC, in my not so humble opinion, is bordering on a Zumbo-like attack. All you have to say is that you support OC and are not opposed to anyone else doing it because if they do it is none of your business, just like if the CC.

Sorry for the hijack, Kevin.

Anygun
OK.

I support OC and am not opposed to anyone doing it because it is none of my business.

But if someone asks for advice, and they get advice telling them to go ahead and OC in all kinds of unfamiliar territory when all they know of the law and its application is some stuff they read on the 'net, then I might chime in with my own advice that it is, a) stupid, and b) might ruin their trip.

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:29 pm
by KBCraig
frankie_the_yankee wrote:But if someone asks for advice
Nobody asked your advice in this thread. There are at least two other threads (one started by you) where you are spending a lot of time and effort making sure everyone knows just how much you don't care whether we open carry.

Feel free to carry on with your argument in those threads. But please leave my thread alone, because this article was not about open carry as such. It is about political correctness, groupthink, and hypocrisy.

Kevin

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:23 pm
by KRM45
KBCraig wrote:
frankie_the_yankee wrote:But if someone asks for advice
Nobody asked your advice in this thread. There are at least two other threads (one started by you) where you are spending a lot of time and effort making sure everyone knows just how much you don't care whether we open carry.

Feel free to carry on with your argument in those threads. But please leave my thread alone, because this article was not about open carry as such. It is about political correctness, groupthink, and hypocrisy.

Kevin
+1

I think we all understand your opinion...

Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:58 am
by pbandjelly
article wrote:Specifically in Oregon, it is legal to open carry in one foot
how does one carry "in one foot?"
I'm confused!

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:29 pm
by DSARGE
pbandjelly wrote:
article wrote:Specifically in Oregon, it is legal to open carry in one foot
how does one carry "in one foot?"
I'm confused!
You gotta sorta hop around

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:52 pm
by stevie_d_64
Want......to.....say......something........but........I cain't...

To be a gay man, and pack heat...And yer bretherin' don't like the fact you carry...

Its enough to make you go straight! ;-)

Clarification...

I have never been (or will be) of that particular orientation, nor do I endorse it... :lol:

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:04 pm
by longtooth
Time for a Moderator to steer this back on topic.
Thank you folks.

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:33 pm
by stevie_d_64
I thought I did steer it back on topic???

Gay Pride, Pink Pistols, Gay Pride doesn't like armed homosexuals...

uh oh..."OC" came up again didn't it...

Your right LT...

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:45 pm
by Seburiel
I think one of the worst parts is, Lonnie, from opencarry(dot)org, is one of the organizers of the event, if I'm not mistaken. He's a really cool guy, to boot.