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The body and dash cam videos posted here show a clear good shoot where an officer is confronted by an individual holding an axe. He issues repeated verbal warnings and backs up to create distance as the suspect advances on him and closes the distance. At a point where he clearly has no other option to avoid being severely injured, he engages the suspect and neutralizes the threat.

The video shows just how quickly a suspect with an edged weapon can present a very immediate and deadly threat, even without running at a defender, and how difficult it is to create enough distance to stay safe without using deadly force.

One could Monday morning quarterback this and say the officer had the option of trying to keep the patrol vehicle between the suspect and himself, but that would most likely only have delayed the same outcome by a few more seconds.

Was the suspect's intent to attack the officer with the axe, or to commit suicide by cop? What do you think?

I don't know if she intended to commit suicide by cop but that is exactly what her uncontrolled rage led to. It appears the cop did what needed to be done to protect himself and stop the threat.

Apparently, the effectiveness of an ax is similar to a knife when taken to a gunfight.

That poor guy is probably going to have nightmares forever.

Can you imagine having to defend yourself from an axe wielding, charging at you, whack job?

Shudder!!

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Looks like a righteous shoot.... She did not leave him many other options. Another suicide by cop. Prayers go out to the officer and his family.

Mavs00 wrote:

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Looks like a righteous shoot.... She did not leave him many other options. Another suicide by cop. Prayers go out to the officer and his family.

I think that's most likely the case because of her deliberate walk toward the officer instead of a running charge and the low position of the axe. She appears to have been more interested in getting shot than in actually attacking the officer but she still clearly posed an immediate and deadly threat that the officer had to deal with.

These situations are very sad cases.

I think she was trying to emasculate this man more than anything by advancing on him like this. Some women think they have the strength of men, but they forget their fuel for their bravado is in the strength of the courts and police.

//Monday Morning Quarterback// if he saw she had an axe he could have stayed in the car.

Otherwise, I don't see anything wrong with his homicide.

I'll make 3 purely hypothetical observations
- suicidal women generally choose more sedate methods
- the ax low-ready position may have indicated a particular target fixation by a psychotic individual (Lorena Bobbitt ring any bells?)
- when the shooter backed away in an arc, he brought his colleagues by the police suv into his line of fire, and they didn't react in time. Ideally, when ax-woman started to advance they could have split up to flank her instead of standing still behind her. (and stayed out of each others field of fire)

Excaliber wrote:

Mavs00 wrote:

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Looks like a righteous shoot.... She did not leave him many other options. Another suicide by cop. Prayers go out to the officer and his family.

I think that's most likely the case because of her deliberate walk toward the officer instead of a running charge and the low position of the axe. She appears to have been more interested in getting shot than in actually attacking the officer but she still clearly posed an immediate and deadly threat that the officer had to deal with.

These situations are very sad cases.

Seated in a car with glass windows is not a defensive position I would advocate for protection from a person wielding an axe. You could suggest using the car to back away while betting that the suspect wouldn't run up to the car during that effort, but that would be a gamble where losing would hurt a lot.

Excaliber wrote:Seated in a car with glass windows is not a defensive position I would advocate for protection from a person wielding an axe. You could suggest using the car to back away while betting that the suspect wouldn't run up to the car during that effort, but that would be a gamble where losing would hurt a lot.

You could hit her with the car, but I don't see how that would be any different than shooting her. He did what he had to do, and he went home to his family that night. She did what she DIDN'T have to do, and she didn't go home to hers. It's an old story. I'm glad he prevailed.

Excaliber wrote: Seated in a car with glass windows is not a defensive position I would advocate for protection from a person wielding an axe. You could suggest using the car to back away while betting that the suspect wouldn't run up to the car during that effort, but that would be a gamble where losing would hurt a lot.

First, I know you were just talking through options. I am being supportive of the officer, as you were, not shooting you down.

As an officer there to protect the public: 1) backing up a car in a residential area while under that stress seems like a good way to hit someone or something. 2) While retreating and making space is part of what he needed to do, if he backs away too far what could she do to other people?

I hate it for everyone involved. But advancing on an officer with an axe...........just sad. I hope that he gets the support he needs. I hope that he has a good perspective.

This incident is somewhat like a recent incident in the City of Denton, Texas.

Denton PD received a call about a man smashing car windows with an axe (the video appeared
to show that it was a hatchet.) They were tied up on other calls and asked UNT (University of
North Texas) PD to handle the call since it was close to the UNT property.

Upon arrival at the scene, the 21 year old man advanced on the UNT LEO with his edged weapon.
The officer had to shoot him, resulting in the suspect's death. Sad story.

SIA

Txtension wrote:I think she was trying to emasculate this man more than anything by advancing on him like this. Some women think they have the strength of men, but they forget their fuel for their bravado is in the strength of the courts and police.

//Monday Morning Quarterback// if he saw she had an axe he could have stayed in the car.

Otherwise, I don't see anything wrong with his homicide.

Please tell me you're joking.

imkopaka wrote:

Txtension wrote:I think she was trying to emasculate this man more than anything by advancing on him like this. Some women think they have the strength of men, but they forget their fuel for their bravado is in the strength of the courts and police.

//Monday Morning Quarterback// if he saw she had an axe he could have stayed in the car.

Otherwise, I don't see anything wrong with his homicide.

Please tell me you're joking.

I say that, because life should be preserved when possible. I am not dogging the officer for killing her. but here we are...in our armchairs asking the questions. We cast what is ultimately our approval or disapproval for what happened. If there is a better way to handle situations like this (with the assumption that life is precious), then my question to you is what is the problem with mentally exploring the other options?

So no I am not joking, my post should be taken for what its worth to you.

Txtension wrote:

imkopaka wrote:

Txtension wrote:I think she was trying to emasculate this man more than anything by advancing on him like this. Some women think they have the strength of men, but they forget their fuel for their bravado is in the strength of the courts and police.

//Monday Morning Quarterback// if he saw she had an axe he could have stayed in the car.

Otherwise, I don't see anything wrong with his homicide.

Please tell me you're joking.

I say that, because life should be preserved when possible. I am not dogging the officer for killing her. but here we are...in our armchairs asking the questions. We cast what is ultimately our approval or disapproval for what happened. If there is a better way to handle situations like this (with the assumption that life is precious), then my question to you is what is the problem with mentally exploring the other options?

So no I am not joking, my post should be taken for what its worth to you.

Part of the police officer's job should be to protect people from ax wielding nut jobs. He can't do that effectively while in his car. There appeared to already be one Police vehicle present, and she wasn't advancing on those officers, so how could he know she was going to come after him? If he was backup, again, he can't act as backup while sitting in his car. The loss of life is unfortunate, but it is sometimes necessary for the preservation of other lives. This was one of those times. I see nothing to indicate this was not a fully necessary and justified self-defense shooting.

Excaliber wrote:The body and dash cam videos posted here show a clear good shoot where an officer is confronted by an individual holding an axe. He issues repeated verbal warnings and backs up to create distance as the suspect advances on him and closes the distance. At a point where he clearly has no other option to avoid being severely injured, he engages the suspect and neutralizes the threat.

The video shows just how quickly a suspect with an edged weapon can present a very immediate and deadly threat, even without running at a defender, and how difficult it is to create enough distance to stay safe without using deadly force.

One could Monday morning quarterback this and say the officer had the option of trying to keep the patrol vehicle between the suspect and himself, but that would most likely only have delayed the same outcome by a few more seconds.

Was the suspect's intent to attack the officer with the axe, or to commit suicide by cop? What do you think?

Don't know and doesn't matter. The officer did what he had to do to protect himself and others.