TexasCHLforum.com

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/ ... h-n2198788

Lott also added that Florida, Pennsylvania, and Texas are states in which one million of their residents are CCW-permit holders. He adds that ten states have a permit holding demographic that constitutes about 10 percent of the respective population, with Indiana being the highest at 15 percent.

The article also makes the case that LTC holders commit less crimes percentage wise than LEO's. But, I'm a little leery of some of the data it quotes. It does give some statistics, but I have no idea how trustworthy this source is.

Not sure about the other states, but here's where you can find reports from TX DPS about LTC holders

http://dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/demographics.htm

http://dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm

mr1337 wrote:Not sure about the other states, but here's where you can find reports from TX DPS about LTC holders

http://dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/demographics.htm

http://dps.texas.gov/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm

Thank you, but I have studied that data from the DPS pretty thoroughly. I have just never seen any data on LEO crime stats before. It's a pretty closely guarded subject. I found it interesting that this article made the claim that on a national scale, LTC's commit less crimes than LEO's.

And yet, we are prohibited from many places that LEO's are not.

I think what may be confusing, is that the report lists, only firearms violations per 100,000 people, and the Texas DPS statistics list all violations, firearms related or not, and the percentages of violations of LTC holders compared to the general public, with no delineation made for LEOs.

I'm not sure where the numbers came from for this report so I can't vouch for their legitimacy, but the fact that, overall, LTC holders in Texas, count for only 1/4 of 1% of all convictions in the State, while representing almost 4% of the population, is a pretty good record. The only thing I don't like in the DPS stats, is that the charge for UCW license holder, can only apply to LTCers, so that number is a much higher percentage.

DPS provides very good crime stats and one of the major factors is the way they present it. The total crimes are those committed by people age 21 years and over. This makes it possible for me to do my analysis using total population numbers for people over age 21 years. Most researchers either don't realize this, or ignore this fact.

In 2014, Texas LTCs were 22.2 times less likely to commit a crime than the general public age 21 and over. That number is astounding! I send an Open Records Request to TCOLE (formerly TCLEOSE) periodically to get the crime stats for Texas peace officers. I don't do it for every session, but only when I think it will be needed. I will do so for the 2017 legislative session to help promote removal of off-limits areas.

The last time I did it was in 2013, but for the 2010 and 2011 calendar years. I requested those years because 2011 was the latest year for which DPS had released crime stats. I sent the ORR to use in the 2013 legislative session. At that time, LEOs were seven times less likely to commit a crime than the general public. CHLs were 14.71 times less likely to commit a crime. My analysis is provided to legislators every session and I selectively provide the LEO data when it is needed or requested. I do not publish the LEO data because some try to use the data to attack LEOs or falsely claim I am doing so. My sole purpose for getting and selectively releasing my LEO analysis is to show the absurdity of allowing LEOs to carry in locations even when off-duty, while denying access by LTCs who have a much better track record.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:DPS provides very good crime stats and one of the major factors is the way they present it. The total crimes are those committed by people age 21 years and over. This makes it possible for me to do my analysis using total population numbers for people over age 21 years. Most researchers either don't realize this, or ignore this fact.

In 2014, Texas LTCs were 22.2 times less likely to commit a crime than the general public age 21 and over. That number is astounding! I send an Open Records Request to TCOLE (formerly TCLEOSE) periodically to get the crime stats for Texas peace officers. I don't do it for every session, but only when I think it will be needed. I will do so for the 2017 legislative session to help promote removal of off-limits areas.

The last time I did it was in 2013, but for the 2010 and 2011 calendar years. I requested those years because 2011 was the latest year for which DPS had released crime stats. I sent the ORR to use in the 2013 legislative session. At that time, LEOs were seven times less likely to commit a crime than the general public. CHLs were 14.71 times less likely to commit a crime. My analysis is provided to legislators every session and I selectively provide the LEO data when it is needed or requested. I do not publish the LEO data because some try to use the data to attack LEOs or falsely claim I am doing so. My sole purpose for getting and selectively releasing my LEO analysis is to show the absurdity of allowing LEOs to carry in locations even when off-duty, while denying access by LTCs who have a much better track record.

Chas.

Is the TCOLE data available through normal open records requests?

But also aren't the crime statistic for LTC holders, hidden and anecdotal?

Charles L. Cotton wrote:DPS provides very good crime stats and one of the major factors is the way they present it. The total crimes are those committed by people age 21 years and over. This makes it possible for me to do my analysis using total population numbers for people over age 21 years. Most researchers either don't realize this, or ignore this fact.

In 2014, Texas LTCs were 22.2 times less likely to commit a crime than the general public age 21 and over. That number is astounding! I send an Open Records Request to TCOLE (formerly TCLEOSE) periodically to get the crime stats for Texas peace officers. I don't do it for every session, but only when I think it will be needed. I will do so for the 2017 legislative session to help promote removal of off-limits areas.

The last time I did it was in 2013, but for the 2010 and 2011 calendar years. I requested those years because 2011 was the latest year for which DPS had released crime stats. I sent the ORR to use in the 2013 legislative session. At that time, LEOs were seven times less likely to commit a crime than the general public. CHLs were 14.71 times less likely to commit a crime. My analysis is provided to legislators every session and I selectively provide the LEO data when it is needed or requested. I do not publish the LEO data because some try to use the data to attack LEOs or falsely claim I am doing so. My sole purpose for getting and selectively releasing my LEO analysis is to show the absurdity of allowing LEOs to carry in locations even when off-duty, while denying access by LTCs who have a much better track record.

Chas.

Excellent! Thank you sir!

Jusme wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:DPS provides very good crime stats and one of the major factors is the way they present it. The total crimes are those committed by people age 21 years and over. This makes it possible for me to do my analysis using total population numbers for people over age 21 years. Most researchers either don't realize this, or ignore this fact.

In 2014, Texas LTCs were 22.2 times less likely to commit a crime than the general public age 21 and over. That number is astounding! I send an Open Records Request to TCOLE (formerly TCLEOSE) periodically to get the crime stats for Texas peace officers. I don't do it for every session, but only when I think it will be needed. I will do so for the 2017 legislative session to help promote removal of off-limits areas.

The last time I did it was in 2013, but for the 2010 and 2011 calendar years. I requested those years because 2011 was the latest year for which DPS had released crime stats. I sent the ORR to use in the 2013 legislative session. At that time, LEOs were seven times less likely to commit a crime than the general public. CHLs were 14.71 times less likely to commit a crime. My analysis is provided to legislators every session and I selectively provide the LEO data when it is needed or requested. I do not publish the LEO data because some try to use the data to attack LEOs or falsely claim I am doing so. My sole purpose for getting and selectively releasing my LEO analysis is to show the absurdity of allowing LEOs to carry in locations even when off-duty, while denying access by LTCs who have a much better track record.

Chas.

Is the TCOLE data available through normal open records requests?

Yes, but you need to know what and how to ask for the data in order to be able to compare it to the DPS/LTC data. If you just ask for "conviction data" it will be useless.

Chas.

Jusme wrote:But also aren't the crime statistic for LTC holders, hidden and anecdotal?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder if we'll see either of the Texas Gun Sense liars' faces in Austin in 2017?

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:DPS provides very good crime stats and one of the major factors is the way they present it. The total crimes are those committed by people age 21 years and over. This makes it possible for me to do my analysis using total population numbers for people over age 21 years. Most researchers either don't realize this, or ignore this fact.

In 2014, Texas LTCs were 22.2 times less likely to commit a crime than the general public age 21 and over. That number is astounding! I send an Open Records Request to TCOLE (formerly TCLEOSE) periodically to get the crime stats for Texas peace officers. I don't do it for every session, but only when I think it will be needed. I will do so for the 2017 legislative session to help promote removal of off-limits areas.

The last time I did it was in 2013, but for the 2010 and 2011 calendar years. I requested those years because 2011 was the latest year for which DPS had released crime stats. I sent the ORR to use in the 2013 legislative session. At that time, LEOs were seven times less likely to commit a crime than the general public. CHLs were 14.71 times less likely to commit a crime. My analysis is provided to legislators every session and I selectively provide the LEO data when it is needed or requested. I do not publish the LEO data because some try to use the data to attack LEOs or falsely claim I am doing so. My sole purpose for getting and selectively releasing my LEO analysis is to show the absurdity of allowing LEOs to carry in locations even when off-duty, while denying access by LTCs who have a much better track record.

Chas.

You not publishing LEO crime stats is just good judgement. I agree with your call on that subject. That data could help some of us when trying to get employers to change their stance on LTC. But, the risks outweigh the potential rewards.

I'm not so sure that keeping the LEO data under wraps is ultimately a good thing. I rather think it should be available at least to the degree that LTC holder conviction, suspension, and revocation data is. As well as state university and college professors and staff...

At the very least, when "son of HB 308" gets to committee hearings and Acevedo start nattering on about all the "dangers" of removing limits on places where LTC holders can carry, the committee should offer to statutorily require that such data be kept for both LTCs and LEOs, along with the locations where the unfortunate events take place, so the legislature can revisit it in the future with actual evidence. I'll bet he'll huff and puff then!

ELB wrote:I'm not so sure that keeping the LEO data under wraps is ultimately a good thing. I rather think it should be available at least to the degree that LTC holder conviction, suspension, and revocation data is. As well as state university and college professors and staff...

I don't know that you can break down convictions into so many categories like college professors etc. But since Peace Officers are licensed by the State, just like LTC holders, I would think that would be an easier group to include, or separate out, as the case may be. I don't know that having detailed information accessible for the general public, regarding dates, locations etc. will be beneficial, to the comparisons, of LEO to LTC holder numbers. All we would need is a ratio of police to the general public, the same way we know how many LTC holders there are, in relation to the population of those over 21.

While I am sure Charles is aware of this and knows what and how to ask, I will point out for the rest of you that TCOLE requires each officer, his chief, and the arresting agency to all report any arrest or conviction of any license holder (which includes peace officers, county jailers, and tele-communicators - the legal term for dispatchers). There will be a lot of reports that are duplicates, and a lot of arrests/charges filed with no convictions.

I wish TCOLE would put the convictions up on their web site, as part of the movement towards government transparency. It could help police in the public relations area if done right.

And if you want a quick guesstimate, read the minutes of each commission meeting. They list the licenses that get suspended or revoked, but without the reason for the action. If it says it is a statutory action, it is probably a conviction of some type.