TexasCHLforum.com

Would you do anything different?

As many parents do in Texas, I am currently teaching my daughter to drive (parent taught drivers education)... During one of our many 'sessions', we were in a parking lot, practicing parking, vehicle control and operation and we noticed a local city police officer also in the parking lot. We assume he is parked, monitoring the traffic on the public road and continued our lessons.
While driving home, my daughter asks, "What do I do if I'm stopped by an officer before I get my license?". Now, many would offer the standard answer of pulling over safely, turning the vehicle off and waiting for the officer to approach and so on... But, our situation is slightly different and led us to a more detailed discussion once we were home.

What is different about our situation? I'm licensed to carry a firearm and I always carry.

During our discussion, we went over the 'standard' way of being stopped, but also included how she should interact with the officer given the fact that I (her instructor at this point) am armed.
We also talked about how and what would be different if she were stopped while only having her permit versus once she has her valid driver's license.

Here are a few points we talked about.
* We went over how to pull over safely and responsibly. Not only including thought for our safety, but the officer's as well. Noting that we should be well clear of traffic and provide room for the officer to safely approach our car.
* Remain calm, roll the window down, turn off the car and keep hands in view... I really stressed the importance of not immediately searching for stuff like license insurance... especially while the officer approaches...
* Speak to the officer respectfully. When and if the officer requests license, let them know where it is and ask to get it and (at this point, would be different once she has her license) let them know that you are a student driver and that you have your permit. This is the point where we talked about how to inform the officer that I'm armed... Definitely don't immediately blurt out the phrase "he has a gun"!!!... I couldn't even begin to think how bad that could go... I told her to comply with the officer's requests, remain calm (yes, I'll repeat the 'remain calm' mantra several times to her), and let me be the one to handle my information...
* We assume now that the officer would also request to see my information... This is where normal procedure would change...
* In Texas, a person with a valid LTC must only show the officer the license when asked (demanded) for ID. Now, normally, if you're a passenger and the driver is stopped, you wouldn't be asked (they can ask you anything), or required to ID (unless you're committing an offense or the officer has probable cause). But, since she only has a permit, we assume that the officer will also want to see my ID. At that point, I would also calmly and politely inform the officer of my license and ask for direction on how to proceed.
* Based on the officer's instructions, we would comply with the officer's requests.
* Basically, I would treat this moment as if I were the driver and now the interaction would be between the officer and me. Again, I stress the importance to my daughter she remain calm...

I really think our discussion went very well. I was so pleased that my daughter would ask and then discuss not only what she should know about driving, but also how to respectfully interact with law enforcement officers.
Then, to top it all off, she learned the additional information and laws that I have to follow when it comes to my LTC.

So, what would you add/do anything different in this situation?

I am not sure about telling her about the differences if you were with her. I would not want to give her anything else to worry about during a stop other than what she has to do. Then, if the officer asks for your ID, just give him both without making a big deal about it.
I remember how upset my oldest daughter got the first time she even got pulled over. Almost to the point of crying (which she did when she called me). I could just hear her now had I been with her and armed at the time--Here is mi license and insurance and my dad has a gun, oh but with a license for it too. Yep, at that early age, they can get flustered and emotional.
Good job on teaching her though.

As you posted on an open forum I assume you are soliciting feedback or opinions.
"What is different about our situation? I'm licensed to carry a firearm and I always carry."

My opinion, your off track/.. you're having an LTC and being armd has NO relevance on your daughters interaction with a LEO, none, zero.
She is not armed.
She does not have a weapon available to her (assuming you maintain control of your weapon)
She does absolutely nothing differnt, says nothing different if it was you in the car armed or a MDA Member (who I will assume is hogtied and gagged, and rightfully has no business being left in your car anywhere near your intelligent daughter..."IT" might have cooties)

ONLY if YOU are contacted and asked for ID does anything change, and still, it's separate from your daughter's actions and contact.

E.Marquez wrote:As you posted on an open forum I assume you are soliciting feedback or opinions.
"What is different about our situation? I'm licensed to carry a firearm and I always carry."

My opinion, your off track/.. you're having an LTC and being armd has NO relevance on your daughters interaction with a LEO, none, zero.
She is not armed.
She does not have a weapon available to her (assuming you maintain control of your weapon)
She does absolutely nothing differnt, says nothing different if it was you in the car armed or a MDA Member (who I will assume is hogtied and gagged, and rightfully has no business being left in your car anywhere near your intelligent daughter..."IT" might have cooties)

ONLY if YOU are contacted and asked for ID does anything change, and still, it's separate from your daughter's actions and contact.

There is no reason. nor obligation, on your daughter's part to inform the officer that you are armed.

If he does ask to see your ID, then hand both DL and LTC to him/her. They have been trained, and know that if you are showing him/her your LTC,then you are probably armed. The officer may ask you if you are armed, and just answer honestly. Any interactions I have had usually go something like:
Officer: Are you carrying now?
Me: Yes Iam.
Officer::Where is the gun?
Me: On my hip, inside waist etc.
Officer:Okay, well if you don't reach for yours I won't reach for mine.(small chuckle)
(traffic stop concluded)
Possible small talk about what type of gun I carry, issues with CC or OC, pleasantries exchanged, we go our separate ways.

E.Marquez has the right approach.

First, it's awesome if you to teach your daughter how to handle this situation in a safely both for herself and our officers.

Second, as a daughter I would have appreciated knowing that my dad would handle his being armed with the officer, and that I didn't need to be worried about it. I think at 15 I may have been a little intimidated sitting between two good guys with guns who may not know they were both good guys. Translation: not knowing the protocol, I would have worried about my dad.

As others have pointed out, I would just hand the officer my ID when asked and waited for the ofgicer to ask if I was carrying, not mentioning it to the officer prior to that.

On another note, I always pull out my wallet and cellphone (has my insurance card) before the officer exits their vehicle. I find it makes them more comfortable when they are already in plain sight and I'm not reaching for unknown objects.

TexasTornado wrote:First, it's awesome if you to teach your daughter how to handle this situation in a safely both for herself and our officers.

Second, as a daughter I would have appreciated knowing that my dad would handle his being armed with the officer, and that I didn't need to be worried about it. I think at 15 I may have been a little intimidated sitting between two good guys with guns who may not know they were both good guys. Translation: not knowing the protocol, I would have worried about my dad.

As others have pointed out, I would just hand the officer my ID when asked and waited for the ofgicer to ask if I was carrying, not mentioning it to the officer prior to that.

On another note, I always pull out my wallet and cellphone (has my insurance card) before the officer exits their vehicle. I find it makes them more comfortable when they are already in plain sight and I'm not reaching for unknown objects.

It all depends on where you are reaching. I told my kids when I was teaching them to drive, window down, hands on wheel, interior light on (if it's at night) Wait for the officer to ask for ID, insurance etc. then tell the officer where those items are located, so that he/she can visually see where you are reaching. Officers get very nervous, when approaching a vehicle and the driver, or passenger is reaching around inside.

PitBoss wrote:During one of our many 'sessions', we were in a parking lot, practicing parking, vehicle control and operation and we noticed a local city police officer also in the parking lot. We assume he is parked, monitoring the traffic on the public road and continued our lessons.

Your lesson on high speed skid recovery might have been distracting for him, I guess.

Jusme wrote: It all depends on where you are reaching. I told my kids when I was teaching them to drive, window down, hands on wheel, interior light on (if it's at night) Wait for the officer to ask for ID, insurance etc. then tell the officer where those items are located, so that he/she can visually see where you are reaching. Officers get very nervous, when approaching a vehicle and the driver, or passenger is reaching around inside.

That's my procedure. I roll the window down (assuming it's not raining hard) and either place both hands on the wheel or put them both on the door frame where they're visible. I don't unfasten my seat belt because I want the officer to know I was wearing it. When they ask for something, I tell them where it is and then move deliberately to get it.

"Let me unfasten my seat belt, first".

"Okay, my wallet is in my front left pocket, let me get it out".

"Here's my ID" (DL and LTC).

"Yes, I have a pistol in my waistband at 4 O'clock."

Why is your daughter driving around without a license? Are you referring to one of these training sessions? Does she have a permit yet?

Jusme wrote:

TexasTornado wrote:First, it's awesome if you to teach your daughter how to handle this situation in a safely both for herself and our officers.

Second, as a daughter I would have appreciated knowing that my dad would handle his being armed with the officer, and that I didn't need to be worried about it. I think at 15 I may have been a little intimidated sitting between two good guys with guns who may not know they were both good guys. Translation: not knowing the protocol, I would have worried about my dad.

As others have pointed out, I would just hand the officer my ID when asked and waited for the ofgicer to ask if I was carrying, not mentioning it to the officer prior to that.

On another note, I always pull out my wallet and cellphone (has my insurance card) before the officer exits their vehicle. I find it makes them more comfortable when they are already in plain sight and I'm not reaching for unknown objects.

It all depends on where you are reaching. I told my kids when I was teaching them to drive, window down, hands on wheel, interior light on (if it's at night) Wait for the officer to ask for ID, insurance etc. then tell the officer where those items are located, so that he/she can visually see where you are reaching. Officers get very nervous, when approaching a vehicle and the driver, or passenger is reaching around inside.

Key there is when they are approaching. Their door opens my hands are on the wheel. Until then though, I grab what I need. Takes maybe 30-45 sec to locate phone (usually in a cup holder) and get my ID's from back pocket.