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My EDC has a manual safety - with the safety in one position, a red dot is exposed; in the other position a white dot is exposed. According to the manual, the white dot being exposed indicates the gun is "safe"; the trigger won't pull under normal circumstances, so the gun won't fire. When the red dot is exposed, it means the gun is "not safe"; it will fire. Seems straightforward - white = safe, red = danger, not safe - right? I've always thought so, until this morning.

My EDC is striker-fired and I carry with a round in the chamber, safety off. That's how I've always carried and that's how I practice. In my situation, if the safety is on (white dot), then I'm not safe because my gun is not in the condition I'm expecting it to be. If I were to have to draw it, it would not be reflex to disengage the safety and that would cost precious seconds. I expect the safety to be off (red dot), so to me, red is "safe."

I'm sure this could spur comments about condition of carry, should you use a manual safety, etc. However, my main point is that I realized that I define what it means for a gun to be "safe" very differently than I use to.

If you have to draw it and you are looking for a red or white dot, you have already lost.

If you carry a gun with a manual safety, you MUST train with the safety engaged... to do otherwise will mean almost certain death in the event you must use the weapon.

Safeties get bumped on or off regularly in a holster. You have instinctively swipe the lever when you draw and present. It's not a problem if it's already off but if you on train for that- Murphy will show up at the fight.

flechero wrote:If you have to draw it and you are looking for a red or white dot, you have already lost.

If you carry a gun with a manual safety, you MUST train with the safety engaged... to do otherwise will mean almost certain death in the event you must use the weapon.

Safeties get bumped on or off regularly in a holster. You have instinctively swipe the lever when you draw and present. It's not a problem if it's already off but if you on train for that- Murphy will show up at the fight.

100%

I follow your thinking and makes sense to me. I've never heard it put that way but again, makes sense. I might be in the minority on this, but I prefer not one in the chamber. My thought is this: I am 55 years old and have never been in a situation where a split second is the difference between life and death. I have also never been in a situation where I had to pull a weapon, thank God. I do realize things happen quick but I would rather face this instead of an ND. Now that being said, there have been a few times where I felt it best to rack one, and I do engage the thumb safety, and also have the grip safety. The same train of thought being I feel I could quickly flip the safety if I had to use the weapon. When I get out of the area and back to my "comfort zone", I go back to non-chambered. So i guess I do both but 99% of the time I am non-chambered. But I also understand why others would want to be in the "ready to fire mode".

Red=dead
Therefore red means ready to fire

Teamless wrote:Red=dead
Therefore red means ready to fire

Red means blood. YMMV. Ah... look it up.

IIRC, I've seen a couple guns where "no marking" = "safety engaged" and "white dot" = "safety disengaged", but I don't remember ever seeing one where "red dot" = "safety engaged".

Even so, I go by position, not color.

Over thinking this. Carry how you train.

That's why everything I carry must conform to one simple principle; if it has a safety it must work exactly like a 1911. I don't care what color is exposed, if the lever is down I'm GTG. That limits my choices but it's a choice I happily live with.

flechero wrote:If you have to draw it and you are looking for a red or white dot, you have already lost.

Whatever you choose, it must be second nature. Fumbling with a safety could be very dangerous.

lfinsr wrote:That's why everything I carry must conform to one simple principle; if it has a safety it must work exactly like a 1911. I don't care what color is exposed, if the lever is down I'm GTG. That limits my choices but it's a choice I happily live with.

I follow the same principle, which is why I'll probably never carry a 1911. I wish gun manufacturers had kept one standard.

Mxrdad wrote:I follow your thinking and makes sense to me. I've never heard it put that way but again, makes sense. I might be in the minority on this, but I prefer not one in the chamber. My thought is this: I am 55 years old and have never been in a situation where a split second is the difference between life and death. I have also never been in a situation where I had to pull a weapon, thank God. I do realize things happen quick but I would rather face this instead of an ND. Now that being said, there have been a few times where I felt it best to rack one, and I do engage the thumb safety, and also have the grip safety. The same train of thought being I feel I could quickly flip the safety if I had to use the weapon. When I get out of the area and back to my "comfort zone", I go back to non-chambered. So i guess I do both but 99% of the time I am non-chambered. But I also understand why others would want to be in the "ready to fire mode".

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you ever find yourself in that situation, you'll have the rest of your life to chamber a round.

I don't worry or think about what color is what. My edc is a Sig P238. It doesn't have any dots. Up is safe and down is fire. I carry cocked and locked. I practice drawing and and it is second nature to flick the safety off (down) after my gun is fully clear of the holster. I also do NOT put my finger on the trigger.

Here is another safety item I stick to. For every gun I own that uses a mag, I have a "practice" mag. It is painted blue on the bottom. I also took out the followers so there is no way those can be loaded. Using those I can practice safely .

You have to instinctively swipe the lever when you draw

I have not thought about that since 2009, but yeah, I instinctively swipe the lever even when I draw my Glock still, in case I am carrying my Taurus Slim 9, my Taurus PT92, 1911 etc etc etc ... I guess it's muscle memory and training, does not matter what I am carrying, my thumb is swiping off a lever such as 1911 has, whether it exists or not (And that's probably why I don't carry the Walther PPK, or the Beretta that you push the lever up, instead of swipe it down)