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Is it possible that some people just can't handle using a firearm? I know a very smart person. They can't seem to understand basic firearms safety. I was raised on hunting and fishing. I'm all into tactical firearms now. My grandfather put me on revolvers and bolt action/lever action rifles. I sometimes wonder if he knew I would get so obsessed with military type rifles.

My point is, I've been trying to show someone who has never shot guns before, how to shoot. I taught my wife, and she has learned QUICK. She now has her carry permit and knows a lot about guns and procedures of carrying. She takes classes as well. However, I have this friend I've been trying to teach. They're not dumb by any means but they just don't understand. They always have their finger on the trigger and the other day pointed the gun at me several times. We were shooting 22lr handguns. I explained everything and constantly showed them. I let them hold the gun and get used to it unloaded. We practiced with no ammo for about 20 minutes. Yet, it comes time to shoot and they still can't get the basic rules down. Towards the end they finally were hitting the target at a decent group. They learned how to shoot but not safety. They have rifles down pat, and we were at a range that was bench only. So I never noticed anything unsafe. We move to some land a week later and shoot pistols. All the freedom means safety went out the window for them.

I'm not sure how to pound safety into them. My grandfather would just beat me if I did something stupid, hint, I never did something this stupid. lol

Seems like one issue is trigger discipline with hand guns. Next time you go take a HUGE red or black sharpie permanent marker. Each time they put their finger on the trigger without being ready to fire just marker up their finger and hand. After a time or two and their hand is red they will eventually get it.

As far as muzzle discipline goes i cant help there. Never had a student that didn't get it

Wife has the same issue. We ALWAYS start with an unloaded weapon. As soon as she puts her finger on the trigger I yell "BANG!!!". She gets mad, but is starting to get it. I do the same thing with my son. When i hand him a firearm and he doesn't check to see if it is loaded HIMSELF, "BANG!" He learns quickly!

Consider taping a tongue depressor to his trigger finger. Helps create muscle memory of finger "OFF THE TRIGGER" and a two foot wooden dowel to the barrel to remind them to keep the business end down range. Visuals do help drive home the point.
Oh and body armor for you...

Surgeon wrote:Consider taping a tongue depressor to his trigger finger. Helps create muscle memory of finger "OFF THE TRIGGER" and a two foot wooden dowel to the barrel to remind them to keep the business end down range. Visuals do help drive home the point.
Oh and body armor for you...

I like the wooden dowel idea.
How does the tongue depressor work? Do you tape the finger in the first and 3rd segment or just one?

warnmar10 wrote:

Surgeon wrote:Consider taping a tongue depressor to his trigger finger. Helps create muscle memory of finger "OFF THE TRIGGER" and a two foot wooden dowel to the barrel to remind them to keep the business end down range. Visuals do help drive home the point.
Oh and body armor for you...

I like the wooden dowel idea.
How does the tongue depressor work? Do you tape the finger in the first and 3rd segment or just one?

I taped it along the whole finger like a splint and then as a good safety reward I made it shorter and shorter until I removed it altogether.

If someone is taking a class from me, they will get a pointed warning RIGHT NOW for muzzle discipline issues. If such an issue occurs again after the warning, they may be asked to leave. For putting their finger on their trigger before they are ready to shoot (muzzle oriented toward target) they will also receive warnings before being dismissed. Note that the student WILL be asked to leave if they do not catch on fairly quickly and change incorrect behaviors. These consequences are stated up front as we discuss the safety rules and range etiquette.

As instructor / range safety officer I must enforce safety standards on any range I am running to ensure that everyone goes home with the same number of holes in their body that they came with. The RSO is the dictator on the range. His/her reign can be benevolent, but unsafe behaviors must be corrected -- sometimes suddenly and with no thought about "feelings" -- before such behaviors become tragic. I see no reason to treat your friend any differently.

What is the age of the person that isn't getting it?

I'm with AndyC on this. There is no room for unsafe behavior with firearms. Just look at all the accidents that happen to folks that supposedly know better. No throw in someone that doesn't really get it? No thank you.

Your life or theirs or someone elses or being crippled trumps their feelings. You don't have to mean about it, but they need to be told how unsafe they are. If not corrected, I wouldn't want to continue shooting with them and wouldn't take them for their own safety as well as others.

Soap wrote:Is it possible that some people just can't handle using a firearm? I know a very smart person. They can't seem to understand basic firearms safety. I was raised on hunting and fishing. I'm all into tactical firearms now. My grandfather put me on revolvers and bolt action/lever action rifles. I sometimes wonder if he knew I would get so obsessed with military type rifles.

My point is, I've been trying to show someone who has never shot guns before, how to shoot. I taught my wife, and she has learned QUICK. She now has her carry permit and knows a lot about guns and procedures of carrying. She takes classes as well. However, I have this friend I've been trying to teach. They're not dumb by any means but they just don't understand. They always have their finger on the trigger and the other day pointed the gun at me several times. We were shooting 22lr handguns. I explained everything and constantly showed them. I let them hold the gun and get used to it unloaded. We practiced with no ammo for about 20 minutes. Yet, it comes time to shoot and they still can't get the basic rules down. Towards the end they finally were hitting the target at a decent group. They learned how to shoot but not safety. They have rifles down pat, and we were at a range that was bench only. So I never noticed anything unsafe. We move to some land a week later and shoot pistols. All the freedom means safety went out the window for them.

I'm not sure how to pound safety into them. My grandfather would just beat me if I did something stupid, hint, I never did something this stupid. lol

I was teaching someone to shoot pistols once, using my guns. We had worked our way up from .22 to .44 magnum. Twice he swept me at fairly close range across the midsection with a loaded .44 magnum, and his finger on the trigger. This was after I had spent hours showing him and his wife how to shoot, beginning with a teaching session going over the safety rules, handling unloaded guns, and how to load and unload using dummy cartridges, etc., etc. So he had been told several times. I warned him each time he swept me, very firmly, to keep the muzzle pointed down range at all times and finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. He was dismissive and told me it was OK because he had control of the gun. I think his real issue was that he didn't want to look bad in front of his wife, and it was a cultural machismo thing. His wife, on the other hand, was a delight. She paid attention, made safety a priority, and she shot better than him because she listened. I think that is why he got all macho. If he had just paid attention too, he'd have been fine. But because he had repeatedly put the importance of his posturing above the importance of safety, I told him that his shooting day was over after the 2nd time he swept me with that .44 mag.

You should do the same thing. Tell your friend that, until he takes the rules seriously, he's done shooting. If he can't understand what "seriously" means, tell him that "seriously" means DOING it, not just paying lip service to it. Tell him that what he was doing is EXACTLY how people get negligently shot dead at shooting ranges, and you care enough about him to not place him in a position where he could negligently shoot someone.......particularly if you turn out to be his victim.

I now tell people whom I'm introducing to shooting that when I see a safety violation, I'll warn them ONCE. If I see it again, we're done for the day, no exceptions.

I'm a little torn - I understand the want to teach a friend and teach them correctly. If bad habits come naturally or were already ingrained, they can be hard to break.

Finger discipline, I think can be corrected by barking at/reminding them every time(or marking them with a marker - that sounds fun ), eventually it will start to sink it.

Flagging, that's something I won't tolerate. Last time I was shooting with a friend who had that issue, the way I got the point across was I told them the next time they swept me with the gun I'd put them on the ground because I was going to forcefully disarm them. And that would be end of shooting with them if they continued to be unsafe. That seemed to get the point across.

I do have to ask how old is the person, how good of a friend ? Because both of these things could make a difference in how you approach the situation.

Well, pretty obvious. A shooter must put gun safety into constant practice. Just understanding the rules isn't enough.

Where the undisciplined shooter will really run into trouble is in defensive drills (or real situations).

Drawing and firing is maybe two seconds that need to run like a drum riff. The weak has to be kept out of the way, the strong hand has to confirm a good grip, and then it gets really fast.

The time from extracting the gun from the holster to extended toward the target might be a half second. In that time the shooter has to control his weak hand and his trigger finger as if they were protected by mechanical interlocks.

There is no excuse, in my opinion, for sweeping your weak hand, and no excuse for the trigger finger entering the trigger guard before the muzzle is sweeping nothing but the target area.

I'd say a careless shooter should either step away from firearms or stop and get good habits ingrained. Nobody should try to execute a rapid drill without lots of slow practice, with proper safety.

Transition to an air soft and role play... you play him and when you sweep him, "accidentally" pull the trigger and leave a welt on him. 3-4 good welts ought to illustrate your point.

On another post we are talking about constitutional carry. There are some people that just should not carry, ever.

C-dub wrote:What is the age of the person that isn't getting it?

I'm with AndyC on this. There is no room for unsafe behavior with firearms. Just look at all the accidents that happen to folks that supposedly know better. No throw in someone that doesn't really get it? No thank you.

Your life or theirs or someone elses or being crippled trumps their feelings. You don't have to mean about it, but they need to be told how unsafe they are. If not corrected, I wouldn't want to continue shooting with them and wouldn't take them for their own safety as well as others.

Almost 30, they just don't seem to get it. Never had experience with guns before. No grandpa to whoop their butt. lol