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Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:44 pm
by dlh
What kind of grip do folks recommend for semi-automatic handguns for self-defense (not competition target-shooting)? Is this a question like which church should I attend or is there an agreed consensus? Does the NRA have a position on it?

Searching through youtube videos I see two "schools of thought." One school says (and it is what I do) to train with the push-pull grip as it improves accuracy and gets your shots on target. However, another school says "full-extension" is the way to go and the firearm should always be pushed away from you with elbows locked. There may be other schools...

What do the instructors/NRA folks recommend? I hope sometime this upcoming year to take a defensive handgun course where I assume these issues are discussed in some detail.

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:30 pm
by superstar
What works for me:

Grip the pistol high and without a gap between your thumb and index finger, middle finger is pressed against the bottom of the trigger guard and the remaining fingers are next to each other without a gap. The support hand's palm touches the grip and makes sure that no part of the grip panel are left untouched. Strong thumb rests on top of the support hand's thumb and they are pointing forward. At this point the support hand has a stronger grip than the shooting hand and the pistol should have an equal push/pull effect on all sides (front, back, left and right sides). The trigger finger rests at the trigger between the end and the first knuckle.

Extend the arms, make sure the pistol is aligned with the shooting arm, slightly bend the elbows (it'll act as a spring when the recoil happens, try both methods and you'll probably feel the recoil more on the shoulders because there is only one pivotal point as opposed to two points if you don't lock your elbows). I "cheek weld" my shoulder for a second (acting as if my arm is a rifle) to see if the pistol is aligned with the arm and then I fire. I'm consistant at 5 yards and all over the place at 7+ yards so I have to do a lot of practice and figure it out where I fail.

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:22 pm
by Scott B.
Really depends on who you train with, listen to, watch on the youtubes, etc. Ultimately? Do what works and is comfortable for you.

NRA teaches 'thumbs forward', support hand fingers wrapped around dominate hand, athletic but comfortable stance. Doesn't matter if it's weaver, isosceles, or a hybrid, basically whatever allows you to return to a natural point of aim. Get a good sight alignment/sight picture, close eyes, lower firearm to low ready, take a deep breath, return to the 'remembered' hold point - open eyes. Repeat and adjust stance as required until you're returning consistently to that 'natural' point of aim.

That's something I still work on / check from time to time. It's easy to allow bad habits to creep back in.

Most new shooters either grip the gun too hard, or not hard enough, and don't 'choke up' on the grip. You'll get various opinions on how hard to hold the gun, percentages of strength in each hand, etc. I like the hands to be balanced, equal grip, fingers and knuckles relaxed, not turning white, relaxed arms and shoulders, hips and knees loose, weight a bit forward, like just about any sporting stance you care to name.

You know what they say about opinions, everyone's got one, but some are just wrong. :lol:

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:03 pm
by WildBill
AndyC wrote:Depends how close the threat is and how much time you think you have. Be flexible, not locked into any "One True Way".
:iagree: I am not an instructor nor an expert on self defense tactics or shooting.
Shooting from retention was one of the techniques we were taught and practiced in one class that I attended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlpAy4AXPH0

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:13 pm
by ELB
AndyC wrote:Depends how close the threat is and how much time you think you have. Be flexible, not locked into any "One True Way".
I have not had to test out my shooting grip against a live, genuine adversary trying to kill me, but I have participated in a number of drills and exercises where I was attacked at close, bad-breath range (which I think the most likely range), and I think depending on having any particular draw, grip, sight picture, etc, is baking failure into the cake. ESPECIALLY if it requires two hands to draw, and two hands to hold the pistol, and a sight picture/focus on the front sight.

Certainly there are scenarios where that is possible, and if time and geometry permits, it should be used. But in situations where someone is in your face, already has ahold of you, is already shooting or stabbing or punching at you (in which case you need to be MOVING out of the way), your likely weapon access and ability to maneuver it is severely compromised. Also think of sitting in a car, strapped down by your safety belt. Thus being able to draw with either hand, shoot with either hand, and be able to have a high likelihood of hitting at close range without having to use the sights seems like a premium ability. (Oh, and do this without putting a hole in your own other hand or leg or whatever).

Likewise, a handgun that is likely to misfire if it is limp-wristed, that requires a strong, "correct" grip to reliably function, might not be a top-tier self-defense gun...

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:21 pm
by WildBill
ELB wrote:
AndyC wrote:Depends how close the threat is and how much time you think you have. Be flexible, not locked into any "One True Way".
I have not had to test out my shooting grip against a live, genuine adversary trying to kill me, but I have participated in a number of drills and exercises where I was attacked at close, bad-breath range (which I think the most likely range), and I think depending on having any particular draw, grip, sight picture, etc, is baking failure into the cake. ESPECIALLY if it requires two hands to draw, and two hands to hold the pistol, and a sight picture/focus on the front sight.

Certainly there are scenarios where that is possible, and if time and geometry permits, it should be used. But in situations where someone is in your face, already has ahold of you, is already shooting or stabbing or punching at you (in which case you need to be MOVING out of the way), your likely weapon access and ability to maneuver it is severely compromised. Also think of sitting in a car, strapped down by your safety belt. Thus being able to draw with either hand, shoot with either hand, and be able to have a high likelihood of hitting at close range without having to use the sights seems like a premium ability. (Oh, and do this without putting a hole in your own other hand or leg or whatever).

Likewise, a handgun that is likely to misfire if it is limp-wristed, that requires a strong, "correct" grip to reliably function, might not be a top-tier self-defense gun...
This is one reason we practiced shooting from retention. To make sure that you had a firm grip and that the gun cleared the holster and the muzzle was pointed towards the threat.

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:58 am
by philbo
This article does a decent job of summarizing the mjor schools of thought on grips, with good illustrations of each.

https://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/ ... mbat-grip/

My own preference is the revolver grip with thumbs locked. Allows one grip on all revolvers and pistols I carry. Further, it reduces recoil with the big bore revolvers I use, keeps your thumbs from dragging on the slide (an issue I've observed in many of the smaller carry pistols), and provides better weapon retention at close quarters. Those are my rationalizations (and I know that's all they are), but it's been effective both on the range and off on those few occasions I've had to utilize a handgun for self defense. Bottom line is to develop a grip that gets your hand as high on the weapon as possible and practice till you can repeat it every time. Consistency is more important than anything else.

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:10 am
by The Annoyed Man
WildBill wrote:
AndyC wrote:Depends how close the threat is and how much time you think you have. Be flexible, not locked into any "One True Way".
:iagree: I am not an instructor nor an expert on self defense tactics or shooting.
Shooting from retention was one of the techniques we were taught and practiced in one class that I attended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlpAy4AXPH0
I can't remember if you were in the same "shooting from retention" clinic I was in, taught by none other than our own Skiprr, but you beat me to it Bill. To the OP, I would say "whatever grip the circumstances require". That means practice a lot of different ways of holding your gun while shooting. For instance, do you ever practice one handed with your weak-side hand? Do you ever practice shooting one handed on your strong side, by rocking the gun up as you clear leather, and shooting from the waist? Do you ever practice shooting from your knees, or from the prone, or on your back, or under a vehicle? I have done all of those except shooting under a vehicle.....and some day I'll try that one on for size.......with someone else's vehicle. :mrgreen:

God willing, you'll never ever have to draw your gun. But if things have degraded to the point where you must, and if you are sufficiently surprised by the need to do so (meaning, rather than seeing it coming and being suitably prepared), you may well not have the chance to present a classic shooting stance, and you'll need to be able to shoot under less than ideal circumstances. You'll want to pay as much attention to those kinds of things, as will pay attention to whatever is the latest gospel on how one should hold a firearm, and in what stance.

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:36 pm
by Abraham
Proper handgun grip when your life is on the line?

My choice: The one that saves your life...

Please, if a one handed grip does the job, I'm not going to concern myself with Isosoles or a Weaver Stance.

Whatever works, and when it comes to retention shots - no one is arguing the fine points of this or that - again whatever works to get the job done...

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:00 pm
by Jusme
:iagree:


You can't prepare for all scenarios, but you need to practice as many different ways to present and fire your gun as possible, because in the heat of the moment, you will automatically revert to how you practice, and it will be determined by the situation. I know a lot of people who believe that they are well trained, who only stand and fire at still targets, using the same stance and grip every time. That may be fine if you are only doing competitive shooting, and that is what you will be shooting at, but as TAM pointed out, that is not always going to be how it goes down. I have known LEO who were involved in shootings, and they could not tell you how they drew, gripped, stood, or fired, because it was all done from muscle memory, and adapted to the situation.

Practice shooting while moving, from cover, in awkward positions, up close to targets, one handed, off handed, low light, bright light, and temperature extremes. Even then, you won't cover all the bases, because there are very few places you can practice 360 degree field of fire etc. The main thing is that in a life or death situation, you don't want to have to think,(what is my stance? what is my grip?) only react. JMHO

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:11 pm
by Pawpaw
What, do you mean you guys can't snatch your gun out of the holster and shoot from the hip, putting 5 rounds into one ragged hole at 25 yards?

I thought everyone could do that. :headscratch

... except me.

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:14 pm
by Jusme
Pawpaw wrote:What, do you mean you guys can't snatch your gun out of the holster and shoot from the hip, putting 5 rounds into one ragged hole at 25 yards?

I thought everyone could do that. :headscratch

... except me.

I've been too busy practicing shooting the gun out of the BG hand like the Lone Ranger. I'm having trouble keeping people to play the BG though. :biggrinjester:

Re: Question: Proper Handgun Grip For Self-Defense?

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:40 pm
by The Annoyed Man
Pawpaw wrote:What, do you mean you guys can't snatch your gun out of the holster and shoot from the hip, putting 5 rounds into one ragged hole at 25 yards?

I thought everyone could do that. :headscratch

... except me.
I see what you did there.