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I'm having a mental fog on something.

Although I do not carry my handgun past a 30.06 sign (That's what concealed rifles are for) I am having a senior moment on remembering something.

Situation: Doctors offices in separate "Professional Buildings" on the "Campus" of say "Seton Hospital" located in separate buildings behind the hospital itself, on the same "property".

I believe that If I accidentally carried my handgun in a hospital itself, it's a Class A misdemeanor but in the Seton Doctors Professional Building that isn't "a Hospital" is it a class C or a class A since the driveway separates the hospital from the other building?

One Doctor's office has no 30.06 sign, so I can carry my handgun instead of concealed rifle there, but refers me to one that does, then to the hospital with 30.06 sign for a test, then over to the lab that has a 30.06 sign...back to original doctor without a 30.06 sign for results, I'm continually changing guns pistol/rifle/back to pistol in the car back and forth out in the parking lot (which is less safe than just leaving a handgun holstered)

As I said, I'd never intentionally carry illegally, but also wondering why different penalties on opposite sides of the driveway, 20 feet apart because of building Identities, if both are "Seton Property". Also wondering why we have to keep the handgun in the car for vehicular burglars but can carry the Glock Magazine from that handgun in the concealed rifle we are allowed to carry in.

I hope there is a bill that passes into law that can fix this so I don't have to think, and so I can carry my lighter weight Glock Handgun instead of the 30 round Glock magazine in my concealed rifle (It's heavier)

You made my head hurt.

This will get some interesting replies.

Well, I would reference the AG letter where that opinion stated that a school administrative building is part of the school and can be posted 30.06.
I would think that the professional building for the doctors might fall the same way, as being part of the hospital, so a violation of 46.035 and a class A, in the opinion of the attorney general.

Personally, I think the AG got that opinion wrong, by the way.

46.035 says the premises (building or portion of building) of a hospital is off limits if 30.06 posted and is a class A for violating. If a Doctor's office was not posted, and the property around the buildings was not posted in such a way to indicate that all the premises on the property were included, then you should be OK to enter the Doctor's office. If the Doctor's office was NOT part of the premises (building or portion of a building) of the Hospital, then even if it WAS posted, it would only be a class C.

Not sure LEOs agree. (I've seen the same UNARMED Security guys both in the hospital and walking around the parking lots where the doctors office buildings are.)

Doctors offices behind Seton Hospital in my town, are in sort of like 10 to 15 separate buildings with 10 to 15 common roofs...like Duplexes, where a doctor in 1 office may have 30.06 and 30.07 sign in front of his entrance, but the other half of the duplex, the doctor there may be pro gun and not post the signs. Some offices are posted, others aren't. It's 15 or so separate buildings, not 1 professional building with signage at AN entrance. MOST office entrances have signage outside the door, like 2 signs on each duplex building, one for each Doctor's office entrance, the Lab has no sign outside, but has one just inside the door. My Doctor has no sign outside HIS office, the one next door (same roof, different entrance, different doctor has a sign... none of the duplex Doctor's offices Lab, are inside the Hospital building that does the Xrays/CT scans etc .. (Usually I just carry my rifle everywhere, but it's heavy and I need to go see a chiropractor from the pain from weight of having to carry a heavy "purse or briefcase" containing my concealed rifle while seeing the doctor

I am sure this has changed since they've put up other offices in other buildings nearby, but for the longest time, Baylor Grapevine was posted 30.06 at the main front entrances and at the ER entrance. But..... the building that housed most of the doctors offices was actually attached to, and maybe could be considered part of, the hospital building. It had it's own entrance which was heavily used, and was not posted. For all practical purposes, although the two buildings were attached, they were separate. There was however a longish hallway you would walk down that communicated with the hospital part of the structure and gain entrance to the hospital. If you entered the hospital through that hallway, you would never see a 30.06 sign, unless you exited the building through the front entrances or the ER entrance and looked back on the way out. There was no sign in that hallway at the hospital entrance. The other signs were compliant. They were just posted in a way that anyone entering from the office suites would never see them.

Far be it from me to take advantage of that situation and carry into the hospital........


In any case, the one doctor I used to see (still do) who was in that office area moved to a separate building a block away that is not posted. They don't seem to care about carry.

I also have had difficulty determining this, but I believe (IANAL) that the separate building "doctor's office" would not be considered a hospital under 46.035. Of course, you very well might have to end up arguing that in court and convincing those 12 people in the box of that (not worth it to me).

Here's why I say that... 46.035 refers to a hospital licensed under Health & Safety Code 241 or 242. That code defines hospital as:

(7) "Hospital" includes a general hospital and a special hospital.

and then defines those as:

(5) "General hospital" means an establishment that:
(A) offers services, facilities, and beds for use for more than 24 hours for two or more unrelated individuals requiring diagnosis, treatment, or care for illness, injury, deformity, abnormality, or pregnancy; and
(B) regularly maintains, at a minimum, clinical laboratory services, diagnostic X-ray services, treatment facilities including surgery or obstetrical care or both, and other definitive medical or surgical treatment of similar extent.

(15) "Special hospital" means an establishment that:
(A) offers services, facilities, and beds for use for more than 24 hours for two or more unrelated individuals who are regularly admitted, treated, and discharged and who require services more intensive than room, board, personal services, and general nursing care;
(B) has clinical laboratory facilities, diagnostic Xray facilities, treatment facilities, or other definitive medical treatment;
(C) has a medical staff in regular attendance; and
(D) maintains records of the clinical work performed for each patient.

Both of these require beds for use for more than 24 hours - which probably don't exist in the separate building "doctor's office".

Of course, you might beat the rap but not the ride, and it may well cost a relatively large sum to do that.

Thank you for this !! I don't know why I never looked at that or didn't notice it if I have looked at it before.

txpilot wrote:I also have had difficulty determining this, but I believe (IANAL) that the separate building "doctor's office" would not be considered a hospital under 46.035. Of course, you very well might have to end up arguing that in court and convincing those 12 people in the box of that (not worth it to me).

Here's why I say that... 46.035 refers to a hospital licensed under Health & Safety Code 241 or 242. That code defines hospital as:

(7) "Hospital" includes a general hospital and a special hospital.

and then defines those as:

(5) "General hospital" means an establishment that:
(A) offers services, facilities, and beds for use for more than 24 hours for two or more unrelated individuals requiring diagnosis, treatment, or care for illness, injury, deformity, abnormality, or pregnancy; and
(B) regularly maintains, at a minimum, clinical laboratory services, diagnostic X-ray services, treatment facilities including surgery or obstetrical care or both, and other definitive medical or surgical treatment of similar extent.

(15) "Special hospital" means an establishment that:
(A) offers services, facilities, and beds for use for more than 24 hours for two or more unrelated individuals who are regularly admitted, treated, and discharged and who require services more intensive than room, board, personal services, and general nursing care;
(B) has clinical laboratory facilities, diagnostic Xray facilities, treatment facilities, or other definitive medical treatment;
(C) has a medical staff in regular attendance; and
(D) maintains records of the clinical work performed for each patient.

Both of these require beds for use for more than 24 hours - which probably don't exist in the separate building "doctor's office".

Of course, you might beat the rap but not the ride, and it may well cost a relatively large sum to do that.

My reading of PC 46.035 says only secs a-1, a-2, and a-3 are Class A. hospitals are sec a-4, but they must must post 30.06, which as of 1/1/16, is now a Class C. So hospitals are a Class C violation. OR, what am I missing? IANAL.

oorah - I think you missed something. Hospitals are listed under (b)(4), and the current section (g) (effective 8-1-2016) states:

Text of subsection effective on August 1, 2016
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (a-1), (a-2), (a-3), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.

which makes a hospital a Class A.

A hospital is not, I repeat IS NOT, off limits automatically. Read paragraph 46.035(i). Such a hospital requires 30.06 or 30.07 notification to prohibit LTC carry. And that means compliant notification, not gun-buster signs.

The exception would be if the hospital is a medical school hospital (I presume it would be classified as a technical institution) such as Downtown Dallas Baylor (I believe). Then it still comes under the campus carry rules which still requires 30.06 but prohibits OC. But if I'm wrong about it being considered a institution of higher education then even Baylor would have to notify per .06/.07.

tex

thetexan... you're right that a hospital is not automatically off limits and that it must be posted. However, if it IS posted with the appropriate 30.06/07 sign, it is a Class A misdemeanor.

thetexan wrote:A hospital is not, I repeat IS NOT, off limits automatically. Read paragraph 46.035(i). Such a hospital requires 30.07 or 30.07 notification to prohibit LTC carry. And that means compliant notification, not gun-buster signs.

The exception would be if the hospital is a medical school hospital (I presume it would be classified as a technical institution) such as Downtown Dallas Baylor (I believe). Then it still comes under the campus carry rules which still requires 30.06 but prohibits OC. Blut if I'm wrong about it being considered a institution of higher education then even Baylor would have to notify per .06/.07.

tex

Don't forget the Houston Zoo is an educational institution as is the Fort Worth Science Museum. All prohibited without posting 30.06.

oohrah wrote:My reading of PC 46.035 says only secs a-1, a-2, and a-3 are Class A. hospitals are sec a-4, but they must must post 30.06, which as of 1/1/16, is now a Class C. So hospitals are a Class C violation. OR, what am I missing? IANAL.

oops - yes, hospitals are (b)(4), (not a-4), my bad. but then I did say IANAL