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Russell wrote:I have a safe very similar to this one (http://www.sentrysafe.com/products/prod ... aspx?s=132) that I use to store my credit cards and whatnot, as well as some extra ammo.

In the earlier discussion on here there was talk about how hot it takes for a round to "cook off". Can a house fire get to that temperature? The owners manual for the safe says that it is designed to be fire resistant in that it has some sort of chemical and covering that will cause the safe to start sweating to help keep the internal temperature down.

My questions are:

1. Would it be possible for the internal temperature to get hot enough where rounds would start cooking off inside of it?

2. If it happens, would a 9mm round be able to pierce a steel safe?

A loose round that DID happen to cook off probably would not launch the bullet. The case would most likely rupture as there is nothing to support it AND it takes less energy to do that than to propel the bullet.

1. Sure...But it takes time AND temperature for that to happen...Most houses (structures) can burn and get hot enough to do so, but it just depends on a lot of factors...And a factor that creates a situation that delays, and even prevents "cook-offs" from happening is that safe...

Take a look at the UL rating on your safe...Should be a sticker or placard inside somewhere easily found in the safe...Usually on the door...

Reply back with that data...

Most residential houses, and I have tried to avoid it as much as possibly in all of the structure fires I have fought over the years, don't take too long, if they end up doing so, burn down to the slab...Total loss...That timeframe in my opinion is almost not near enough time to cook things off in a safe that is designed to prevent that from happening...

Very rarely have I come across a big standup gunsafe...Most do just fine, even in a total loss situation...Convective heat may melt a few little things in there, but for the most part they do ok...So keep that in mind when you're placing stuff in there to be protected...

Obviously ammo is very volitile, and susceptable to heat...Small amounts may not be that big a deal...I have about, shoot, about 1500 rounds of stuff that feeds AR's, and about another 500-600 for the various handguns in there...I would be comfortable with double, or even triple that amount...

Because...

2. I do not believe, even with some serious structural failure of the gunsafe (very unlikely) that a round of 9mm, or even .223 would penetrate the steel walls of mine or a few other well made gunsafes I've seen around lately...

The energy alone from a round or rounds cooking off inside a safe almost defies the odds...Sure you may hear things going bang, but there are a lot more dangerous things that happen in fires than ammunition going off in my experience and opinion...

I know .22 rounds will cook off if you throw a handful in a campfire. Hope this helps.

DSARGE wrote:I know .22 rounds will cook off if you throw a handful in a campfire. Hope this helps.

Wait...I am sooo sorry, but I can't resist...

Is this the one where it also involves a lot of beans and musical stumps???

I know...

(theres going to be a meeting about this, and a note soon)

I agree that its' not likely for the ammo to heat and go off in fires that last under an hour. I also doubt that any decent safe would allow the blast to escape. But if one did it would be highly likely to start a fire inside the safe, damaging what ever is left. I would reconsider storing the ammo in a fire proof safe, not out of safety fears, but as a matter of lowering risk to the items I'm protecting.

Also you may find fire safes are not as cool as you may thank, that is why there are “Media Grade� safes sold for computer back up devices. Media rated safe (as on the UL label, not the product label) don’t heat up enough to melt plastic. The original and still available standard was based on the need to protect cash , jewelry and inked paper. More than one report of documents fused together, and plastic items warped has been made.

stevie_d_64 wrote:Is this the one where it also involves a lot of beans and musical stumps???

Oh, thank you, Stevie. Now I can't get that scene from Blazing Saddles out of my head. Like a pop song that gets stuck and you really don't want it there...

Just a tip.
I always kept black powder in the Fridge. Ive been to a few house fires where the place burned to the slab and the beer in the fridge was still cold. Might be worth considering keeping ammo in the fridge.

I'm skeptical of those small fire safes. The reason is if your house gets broken into, it's easy to walk off with. Trust me, it's the first thing they'll take since it happened to me. A big 600 pound job isn't so easy to haul off.

Also, I have a good friend who owns a locksmithing business, and he has told me that gun safes are MUCH easier to break into than normal safes, not being built to the same standards, locks that can be easily manipulated, thin sheet metal walls instead of steel plate. Even most large gun safes, however, have concrete layered between steel in the safe walls, which should stop anything short of an armor-piercing round in a large caliber. A standard home or business safe (say 3'x3'x4') in a decent brand should be inpenetrable by anything up to about a .50 BMG AP round, and quite possibly even that.

"I'm skeptical of those small fire safes. The reason is if your house gets broken into, it's easy to walk off with. Trust me, it's the first thing they'll take since it happened to me. A big 600 pound job isn't so easy to haul off."

not to ad insult to that, i am sorry your safe was hauled away. But can't you somhow anchor them to prevent that?

BTW this reminds me of somthing... how funny it was to see a guy with a huge lockbox (construction tools??) (locked) on the same trailer as his cutting tourch. LOL

Liberty wrote:Just a tip.
I always kept black powder in the Fridge.

Black powder is a completely different animal, and must never be stored in any locked airtight container!

A black powder magazine should be made from sheetrock, not steel. If it hits combustion temperature, it will vent "gently". If it hits combustion temperature in a tightly sealed steel container, it's a bomb.

KBCraig wrote:

Liberty wrote:Just a tip.
I always kept black powder in the Fridge.

Black powder is a completely different animal, and must never be stored in any locked airtight container!

A black powder magazine should be made from sheetrock, not steel. If it hits combustion temperature, it will vent "gently". If it hits combustion temperature in a tightly sealed steel container, it's a bomb.

Black Powder is hygroscopic, that is it attracts moisture, so it should ALWAYS be stored in airtight containers, just not airtight magazines. Wet black powder does not function very well.

T3hK1w1 wrote:Also, I have a good friend who owns a locksmithing business, and he has told me that gun safes are MUCH easier to break into than normal safes, not being built to the same standards, locks that can be easily manipulated, thin sheet metal walls instead of steel plate. Even most large gun safes, however, have concrete layered between steel in the safe walls, which should stop anything short of an armor-piercing round in a large caliber. A standard home or business safe (say 3'x3'x4') in a decent brand should be inpenetrable by anything up to about a .50 BMG AP round, and quite possibly even that.

Okay, so what's the difference between a gun safe and a regular safe? I've noticed the cheapo gun safes at Bass pro that seem like little more than a locker and only weigh about 100 pounds. But then you have the big boy that seems a lot more solid and weighs 600-1000. Obviously the bigger, heavier one is going to be better. Is that what you're talking about? Or is there a better safe than those? I'm asking because I'm in the market. I don't want to put a bank vault in my house of course, but I do want something that's not easily broken into. I have a monitored security system, but that can be thwarted by professionals.

-L