TexasCHLforum.com

Posted: **Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:31 pm**

I am looking into getting my LTC this year. I have looked over the laws for training and elegibility but have one question I can’t find any answer on. I have never been arrested, been to court, convicted, etc. And have only had 2 tickets. My question is, about 12 years ago I applied with a couple Local Police Departments and put something down in my personal history statement from when I was 14. I got thru the background on the first app, but did not get hired, and did not get hired on the second app and decided to look for a new career. Will this affect my elegibility to get a LTC if I was never arrested, tried, or convicted af anything?

Posted: **Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:08 am**

Hopefully one of the instructors or attorneys will answer (i'm neither) but I don't think your PD app will matter unless it was so outrageous that they put you on the terrorist watch list.

The disqualifiers are pretty specific.

Posted: **Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:58 am**

A lot has to do with what the items you put down on the applications were. I am not asking, merely stating. The LTC laws are pretty clear about dis-qualifiers.

Posted: **Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:02 am**

Depends on what you admitted to...

I doubt a job application can affect your eligibility on criminal conviction grounds...
Criminal convictions and deferred adjudications are the only things that count, as far as I know.
If you were never charged, eligibility should be unaffected.

If you admitted to needing drug abuse treatment or a mental health condition on your application and are now planning to fill out the LTC application and not mention those things, I don't know what the implications of that would be. In my opinion, it's incredibly unlikely that your application history would show up in any background check, but any institutionalization may have a record someplace.

Have you reviewed the actual application questions? (see below)
Can you answer these both "No" truthfully? If so, no worries. Just my opinion, not legal advice. IANAL.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms ... TC-78A.pdf

Have you ever been arrested or charged with a crime? (Regardless if pending, dismissed, committed as a juvenile, was long ago OR was in another state.) *If YES, please complete and attach LTC-78C.

Have you ever been treated and / or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and / or psychiatric care; OR been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control or intellectual ability; OR pleaded innocent by reason of insanity; OR been found mentally incompetent; OR had court-ordered outpatient treatment?

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:22 am**

It was not anything for drugs or mental health. Not anything for rehab or anything like that. I was thinking along the same line as you guys but just wanted to get other opinions. Just didnt want to waste the money if anyone knew differently.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:16 pm**

846154 wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:22 am It was not anything for drugs or mental health. Not anything for rehab or anything like that. I was thinking along the same line as you guys but just wanted to get other opinions. Just didnt want to waste the money if anyone knew differently.

Unless you are willing to disclose what you believe may be a disqualifier, then we will not be able to provide any feedback.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:15 pm**

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:59 pm**

846154 wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:15 pm What I put on the app was voyerism when I was 14, 20 years ago. Stupid kid being stupid. Have never had anything since then, except 2 speeding tickets.

Did it result in any interaction with law enforcement?

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:44 am**

Other than meeting with background investigators for the hiring process and taking a polygraph as the next step, no.

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:38 am**

OK.. then... going back to the actual LTC application... It would appear to me (my OPINION only) that you should be able to answer the two relevant questions in the negative and there will be nothing in your background check that conflicts with that attestation.

Emphasis mine...

https://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms ... TC-78A.pdf
Have you ever been arrested or charged with a crime? (Regardless if pending, dismissed, committed as a juvenile, was long ago OR was in another state.) *If YES, please complete and attach LTC-78C.

Have you ever been treated and / or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and / or psychiatric care; OR been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control or intellectual ability; OR pleaded innocent by reason of insanity; OR been found mentally incompetent; OR had court-ordered outpatient treatment

Doing something stupid as a juvenile that did not result in an arrest or charge should not be disqualifying.
This is my opinion, not legal advice. IANAL.

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:19 am**

IANAL, but I would think that as long as you were not fingerprinted, picture taken or charged with a crime then you wouldn't even have to list it. However, if you were charged and then released, it would have to be listed and qualifying documents sent in with your application.

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:21 am**

RPBrown wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:19 am IANAL, but I would think that as long as you were not fingerprinted, picture taken or charged with a crime then you wouldn't even have to list it. However, if you were charged and then released, it would have to be listed and qualifying documents sent in with your application.

That is not what the application says. It says, "Have you ever been arrested or charged with a crime? (Regardless if pending, dismissed, committed as a juvenile, was long ago OR was in another state.) *If YES, please complete and attach LTC-78C."
It does not say only if your picture was taken or you were fingerprinted. Even if it was a class C misdemeanor that resulted in an arrest, it needs to be listed on the application and be prepared to show what the final disposition was.
Without knowing why the PD did not accept you as an officer candidate, I do not know if that reason is in the disqualifiers for an LTC. If they deem it to be a disqualifier, they will tell you why and what you need to give them to clear it up.
Side Note: IMO if you had applied to the TSA, they may not hire you if you seem to have an average IQ or higher.

Not being hired by the PD is not a reason in itself to disqualify you from getting an LTC.
IANAL, but have had many students receive their LTC even with arrests or being turned down for jobs that required polygraph testing.

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:05 pm**

twomillenium wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:21 am
RPBrown wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:19 am IANAL, but I would think that as long as you were not fingerprinted, picture taken or charged with a crime then you wouldn't even have to list it. However, if you were charged and then released, it would have to be listed and qualifying documents sent in with your application.
That is not what the application says. It says, "Have you ever been arrested or charged with a crime? (Regardless if pending, dismissed, committed as a juvenile, was long ago OR was in another state.) *If YES, please complete and attach LTC-78C."
It does not say only if your picture was taken or you were fingerprinted. Even if it was a class C misdemeanor that resulted in an arrest, it needs to be listed on the application and be prepared to show what the final disposition was.
Without knowing why the PD did not accept you as an officer candidate, I do not know if that reason is in the disqualifiers for an LTC. If they deem it to be a disqualifier, they will tell you why and what you need to give them to clear it up.
Side Note: IMO if you had applied to the TSA, they may not hire you if you seem to have an average IQ or higher.
Not being hired by the PD is not a reason in itself to disqualify you from getting an LTC.
IANAL, but have had many students receive their LTC even with arrests or being turned down for jobs that required polygraph testing.

If you were arrested, pretty good bet you were fingerprinted and picture taken, at least it was way back when I carried a badge. Didn't matter what the charge was. Things may have changed since then

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:07 pm**

I think you are eligible based on the information you gave us.

There's no polygraph for LTC and if you didn't get caught, it didn't happen, as far as the application questions go.

Even if you were arrested, it just means extra paperwork, as long as you weren't convicted or plead guilty.

Posted: **Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:28 pm**

RPBrown wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:05 pm
twomillenium wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:21 am
RPBrown wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:19 am IANAL, but I would think that as long as you were not fingerprinted, picture taken or charged with a crime then you wouldn't even have to list it. However, if you were charged and then released, it would have to be listed and qualifying documents sent in with your application.
That is not what the application says. It says, "Have you ever been arrested or charged with a crime? (Regardless if pending, dismissed, committed as a juvenile, was long ago OR was in another state.) *If YES, please complete and attach LTC-78C."
It does not say only if your picture was taken or you were fingerprinted. Even if it was a class C misdemeanor that resulted in an arrest, it needs to be listed on the application and be prepared to show what the final disposition was.
Without knowing why the PD did not accept you as an officer candidate, I do not know if that reason is in the disqualifiers for an LTC. If they deem it to be a disqualifier, they will tell you why and what you need to give them to clear it up.
Side Note: IMO if you had applied to the TSA, they may not hire you if you seem to have an average IQ or higher.
Not being hired by the PD is not a reason in itself to disqualify you from getting an LTC.
IANAL, but have had many students receive their LTC even with arrests or being turned down for jobs that required polygraph testing.
If you were arrested, pretty good bet you were fingerprinted and picture taken, at least it was way back when I carried a badge. Didn't matter what the charge was. Things may have changed since then

I was, in 73, no prints or pics but arrest still showed. Fact: Not all arrests resulted in pics and prints but still show on record.

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