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A couple decided not to take their feverish child to the hospital. Hours later police kicked down their door
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 223829002/

Outrageous behavior even for the police state.

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2019/03/ ... swat-team/

I can discern where you stand by asking you two questions: [1] Who owns children, and [2] To whom have they been given for governance and training?

My answers are simple: [1] God, and [2] Parents. If you believe that parents own children, you believe in slavery and you deny God’s ownership of all of His creatures. You own your dog, not your children. If you believe that anyone but the parents have been given responsibility for governance and oversight, teaching, training, love, discipline, correction and rebuke, you are a communist.

Hillary was right; It Takes A Village........to destroy a family!

I was amazed at what I was reading when I saw this story earlier. Another example of SWAT being used too much and government meddling where they shouldn't.

mojo84 wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:46 am I was amazed at what I was reading when I saw this story earlier. Another example of SWAT being used too much and government meddling where they shouldn't.

It appears to me that in Arizona, children are 'owned' by neither God or the parents. Apparently, children are owned by the DCS. And that the DCS is in need of an 'Internal Affairs' division.

Yet people think the police won't enforce unconstitutional gun laws.

I'd answer the OP's questions differently, and say Children are owned by themselves. Not to get into a theological debate, but the whole free will thing applies. My personal beliefs do not include the idea that God actually owns any of us. Others may disagree.

On the second question, I would say that parents are the ones tasked with safeguarding the physical and spiritual well being of the child. But, as a Locke disciple, I'd also say that governments are formed among men in order to safeguard the rights of the people. Children have the right to life, so it is a proper function of government, in my opinion, to step in if anyone, including a child's parents, threatens the life of a child. So there is a line where government should rightly intervene to protect children from negligent or abusive parents.

That said, in this case, it appears that government agents went way, way, past that line.

So choice now ends at the day of birth?

Used to be no choice until the day of birth.

I

Texas CPS takes kids out of deplorable living conditions all the time. I don't see how this is any different.

oohrah wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:54 pm Texas CPS takes kids out of deplorable living conditions all the time. I don't see how this is any different.

You're aware of Texas using SWAT teams and kicking down doors to remove kids all the time? Were this family's kids having to live in deplorable conditions?

mojo84 wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:19 pm

oohrah wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:54 pm Texas CPS takes kids out of deplorable living conditions all the time. I don't see how this is any different.

You're aware of Texas using SWAT teams and kicking down doors to remove kids all the time? Were this family's kids having to live in deplorable conditions?

Good point!

oohrah wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:54 pm Texas CPS takes kids out of deplorable living conditions all the time. I don't see how this is any different.

what were this child's deplorable conditions?

https://www.theorganicprepper.com/unvac ... swat-raid/

More info

SewTexas wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:10 pm

oohrah wrote: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:54 pm Texas CPS takes kids out of deplorable living conditions all the time. I don't see how this is any different.

what were this child's deplorable conditions?

Lets be careful here. If we set "deplorable" as the threshold, then President O'Rourke might decide to take kids out of every home that voted for Trump in 2016.

Some folks need some retaining and free time off with No pay!
This needs to fully investigated and changes made so this don't happen again! Some might to even be Fired!