TexasCHLforum.com

I am new here and studying and practicing in order to get my CHL. I have read the Texas Concealed Handgun Laws (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf) and know most places not to carry.

To keep our Texas CHL in place we need to obey the law, and ignorance of the law is no exuse. Edit, Ive been corrected.

Plus, I see remarks on how some busines owners 30.06 sign is non comformant, so what, respect that business's request, maybe do him a favor and tell him/her that they need to update their signage.

I don't mean to step on any toes here, but having a CHL is a privaledge AND a big responsibility.

MikeY


Edit: I made some assumptions based on a clause i missed in the Penal Code, I apologize for my remark "While there is a lot of good info here I am amazed at the people who carry in places that are"off limits".

MikeY[/b]

teleamp wrote:I am new here and studying and practicing in order to get my CHL.

I don't mean to step on any toes here, but having a CHL is a privaledge AND a big responsibility.

MikeY

I am glad to have you as new on the board. Really glad to see you preparing to get you CHL. I want to respectfully disagree somewhat w/ your last statement here. You can be sure others will also.
ChL is not a privelge. It is a right partially restored. 2nd Amendment is not a priv given by the Feds it is an inalienable right of all men recognized in The US Constitution & promiced by the Constitution to not be infringed.
Politicians break the law & lie dont they.

teleamp wrote: To keep our Texas CHL in place we need to obey the law, and ignorance of the law is no exuse.

Plus, I see remarks on how some busines owners 30.06 sign is non comformant, so what, respect that business's request, maybe do him a favor and tell him/her that they need to update their signage.

I don't mean to step on any toes here, but having a CHL is a privaledge AND a big responsibility.

MikeY

So ignorance of the law is no excuse...unless your a business posting invalid 30.06 signs, then its ok?

Personally i believe that a business shouldnt have any say on what i carry on my person. If the state says i cant carry somewhere (via a valid 30.06 sign) then i wont carry there, but if the sign is invalid then it might as well be the business' personal opinion because its holds no power over me.

Welcome to TexasCHLforum, we're glad to have you with us.

I'm not sure where you get the impression that carrying illegally is commonplace among CHL's. Other than the on-going disagreement about Post Offices, I rarely see anyone talk about carrying in places that are off-limits. There seems to be a lot of people that don't realize some of the places listed as off-limits, like churches, hospitals/nursing homes, government meetings, etc. are off limits only if there is a valid 30.06 sign present. Yes, the statute makes them off-limits, but many people don't read the section in the Penal Code that says this applies only if there is a 30.06 sign. There is also an issue with governmental agencies improperly posting 30.06 signs that are unenforceable, per the express language in TPC 30.06(e). Crossing a 30.06 sign to carry in such places isn't illegal.

I think the vast majority of CHL's do not carry in violation of any laws.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I think the vast majority of CHL's do not carry in violation of any laws.

That is my feeling as well. We disagree about what is and is not off limits sometimes, but I don't know many (especially here) who intentionally carry where it is illegal to do so. I will admit that I have done so in one or two cases where the alternative was worse (e.g. allowing a child access to a firearm), but I don't do so often or recklessly.

longtooth wrote: I am glad to have you as new on the board. Really glad to see you preparing to get you CHL. I want to respectfully disagree somewhat w/ your last statement here. You can be sure others will also.
ChL is not a privelge. It is a right partially restored. 2nd Amendment is not a priv given by the Feds it is an inalienable right of all men recognized in The US Constitution & promiced by the Constitution to not be infringed.
Politicians break the law & lie dont they.

Really, I agree and my personel beleif is that we should be able to open carry, but, we have allowed our elected officials to enact laws. Just as driving is a privaledge, so is CHL, and until the laws are repealed we have to obey them.

I am a firm believer that if open carry was back in place crime would be substantualy lower.

Mike

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Welcome to TexasCHLforum, we're glad to have you with us.

I'm not sure where you get the impression that carrying illegally is commonplace among CHL's. Other than the on-going disagreement about Post Offices, I rarely see anyone talk about carrying in places that are off-limits. There seems to be a lot of people that don't realize some of the places listed as off-limits, like churches, hospitals/nursing homes, government meetings, etc. are off limits only if there is a valid 30.06 sign present. Yes, the statute makes them off-limits, but many people don't read the section in the Penal Code that says this applies only if there is a 30.06 sign. There is also an issue with governmental agencies improperly posting 30.06 signs that are unenforceable, per the express language in TPC 30.06(e). Crossing a 30.06 sign to carry in such places isn't illegal.

I think the vast majority of CHL's do not carry in violation of any laws.

Chas.

I am just trying to make sure that I understand the penal code concerning CHL, as I read it churches, hospitals/nursing homes, government meetings, etc. were "off limits" and that's where I assumed (I forget, never assume) that is where i got my impressions. So, as long as there is no 30.06 signage at churches, hospitals/nursing homes, government meetings, etc. then it is legal to ccw as long as you have a CHL?

I am trying to learn all of this before the class, to make sure I pass the test.

Mike

You missed this clause, which was added in 1997:

PC §46.035 (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

I can't recall anyone in this forum writing that they intentionally carried in an off-limits place. Putting that in writing would not be smart.

- Jim

AFJailor wrote:So ignorance of the law is no excuse...unless your a business posting invalid 30.06 signs, then its ok?

Personally i believe that a business shouldnt have any say on what i carry on my person. If the state says i cant carry somewhere (via a valid 30.06 sign) then i wont carry there, but if the sign is invalid then it might as well be the business' personal opinion because its holds no power over me.

But, two wrongs do not make a right, if someone has an improper 30.06 I think you should respect their wishes, and inform them that their signage needs to be corrected.

Mike

teleamp wrote:

longtooth wrote: I am glad to have you as new on the board. Really glad to see you preparing to get you CHL. I want to respectfully disagree somewhat w/ your last statement here. You can be sure others will also.
ChL is not a privelge. It is a right partially restored. 2nd Amendment is not a priv given by the Feds it is an inalienable right of all men recognized in The US Constitution & promiced by the Constitution to not be infringed.
Politicians break the law & lie dont they.

Really, I agree and my personel beleif is that we should be able to open carry, but, we have allowed our elected officials to enact laws. Just as driving is a privaledge, so is CHL, and until the laws are repealed we have to obey them.

I am a firm believer that if open carry was back in place crime would be substantially lower.

I think what Longtooth means is that our right to keep and bear arms is a Constitutional right. Some would go even farther to say it is a God given right to protect oneself and family.

Assuming it is an unconditional constitutional right. It should override the suggestion of our state laws that it is some sort of privilege. This is known as the "the right to keep and bear arms". is not a "the privilege to keep and bare arm." you are correct that Texas though does sometimes by law and definition treat this supposed right as a privilege that can be taken away. Its up to us to remind them it is a right.

seamusTX wrote:You missed this clause, which was added in 2005, IIRC:

PC §46.035 (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

I can't recall anyone in this forum writing that they intentionally carried in an off-limits place. Putting that in writing would not be smart.

- Jim

Yes, I did miss that clause, and that is where my assumptions came from (I do forget not to assume), and clarifies a lot of things. With that in consideration, I take back my statement about CHL's carrying where they shouldn't.

To anybody I might have offended, I apologize.

Mike

teleamp wrote:

AFJailor wrote:So ignorance of the law is no excuse...unless your a business posting invalid 30.06 signs, then its ok?

Personally i believe that a business shouldnt have any say on what i carry on my person. If the state says i cant carry somewhere (via a valid 30.06 sign) then i wont carry there, but if the sign is invalid then it might as well be the business' personal opinion because its holds no power over me.

But, two wrongs do not make a right, if someone has an improper 30.06 I think you should respect their wishes, and inform them that their signage needs to be corrected.

Mike

No no no .. Why would we ever want to help them correct this? What advantage is it for us CHLers to have the ignorant start posting proper 30.06 signs. If a business has an improper sign I will avoid the if I can. I might tell them the sign will cause me to avoid doing business with them ever again. I've even gave one place my business card and asked the to drop me a line when /if they remove their sign. But never tell them that the sign is correctly posted.

That being said I will totally ignore all gun buster and no gun signs. When a business posts these types of signs I just know they aren't refering to me. but to criminals and others that might not be carrying under the authority of a CHL.

teleamp wrote:

AFJailor wrote:So ignorance of the law is no excuse...unless your a business posting invalid 30.06 signs, then its ok?

Personally i believe that a business shouldnt have any say on what i carry on my person. If the state says i cant carry somewhere (via a valid 30.06 sign) then i wont carry there, but if the sign is invalid then it might as well be the business' personal opinion because its holds no power over me.

But, two wrongs do not make a right, if someone has an improper 30.06 I think you should respect their wishes, and inform them that their signage needs to be corrected.

Mike

It is up to us to know what the law is regaarding off-limit places.

It is up to the busineses that post to know what is required.

Why are some people, including you, so adamant about informing non-compliant posters so they can correctly prohibit carry?

The law is almost clear. The contrasting colors and 1 inch letters is the main issue as far as I have noticed.

You alone will have to decide for yourself oncee you start to carry.

Think about it this way. Using your logic, if a place attampts 30.06 but does so incorrectly allowing you to carry, you will respect that sign and not carry. You say they do not want you to be there armed. Again, using your logic, you can not go where "gun buster" signs are posted since they do not want you to be there.

The 30.06 law is quite an intelligent law but just needs tweaking. In other states a gunbuster sign means no carry.

Welcome to the forum, sir.

Anygun

teleamp wrote:But, two wrongs do not make a right, if someone has an improper 30.06 I think you should respect their wishes, and inform them that their signage needs to be corrected.

Mike

What presidence does "thier wishes" have over my leagal rights?
So, why inform a business that they are improperly posting? If a private business (no matter what it it) posts a proper 30.06, we can't carry there.
If they post a "gun-buster" or something similiar, I will continue in with my business (that day only) and not return since they are advertising a victim area. Some people would argue that a place of business that posts a 30.06 with some detail missing such as no contrasting colors or not the correct height in lettering would be a valid reason to enter. They may be correct leagally if they feel like fighting it, but I do not want to spend my resources fighting something as meaningless as that when I can just take my business elsewhere and inform the owner of my decision by letter. I'm glad you're asking these questions, and you're in the right place to ask them. Just obey "THE LAW", realize that a handgun (or any other firearm) is our RIGHT to keep and bear as appointed by our country's Constitution.

teleamp wrote:
I am just trying to make sure that I understand the penal code concerning CHL, as I read it churches, hospitals/nursing homes, government meetings, etc. were "off limits" and that's where I assumed (I forget, never assume) that is where i got my impressions. So, as long as there is no 30.06 signage at churches, hospitals/nursing homes, government meetings, etc. then it is legal to ccw as long as you have a CHL?

I am trying to learn all of this before the class, to make sure I pass the test.

Mike

What were you saying about ignorance of the law again?

Glass houses, etc.